thraxle when everyone else thinks you're reacist. maybe you should listen and look closely at yourself

It's all a self-fullfilling prophecy. Once I'm not on a phone I'll cite a study that shows that the trait most strongly tied to student success is teacher expectation. The teacher expects the student to do well, so the student lives up to the teacher's expectations.

And it all comes down to the culture at home (unless we are talking about how the Irish became white). Immigrants usually immigrated here for a reason. Families do not just wake up one day with an incling for some American soil under their feet, they have a defined purpose or goal to work towards. They EXPECT to be doing well in school and their families EXPECT their children to go to college.

Native born African Americans are another beast entirely. They are not EXPECTed to do well by their teachers, parents or society, and, well waddaya know, they do not do as well as a whole. But how do you fix that? How do you convince an entire community to contribute to society? Simply put: they must be EXPECTed to do well. They do not need to be propped up by various programs. They have to be coerced back into the workplace, and convinced that they can contribute; but not only that: the society has to be willing to let them contribute. The former is the greater problem in urban areas, and the latter in the rural areas.

But that's just my 2 pesos on the subject.

Thanks for the advice boogy.

good post Chase, or not chase i could never keep it straight, and I cant say I disagree with much of it. I believe the chain of studies you are referring to started with Rosenthal, but we may be thinking f a different studies entirely or i could just be mistaken. I would like to add though that while others expectations do contribute a significant amount. Nothing beats self motivation, see Niel Degrasse Tyson. At some point you have to be your own catalyst for success.

and thrax you aren't racist, I don't think so at least. I would say more frustrated than anything.

The self-fulfilling prophecy is THE answer! Especially as the self-defeating prophecy never gets mentioned in such situations.

@thrax: Coherence = logically tied together.

Can't believe what I am reading...

- "A great many things. The deification of hip-hop culture for one."

When was the last time you listened to rock music, Thrax? That scared the shit put of the white people too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FE3AAu4vMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEYwk0bypY

- "The coolness of being 'hard' or a 'thug'"

White culture never romanticizes thuggery or machismo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTit869LfWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-_tAxtu2Ts

- "I could go on with more examples, but you'll just lol and call me racist."

I don't really think you have any more, but please supply us with more personal anecdotal evidence as to why African-Americans are inherently inferior.

- "I paid for my own college. I found my own job and started in the warehouse at the ground level. My wife did the same with an amazingly broken home which I wont go in to on a public forum. We made no excuses for getting it done on our own and neither should anyone else."

This is my favorite. What does this have to do with anything? What is the essential argument here? Why can't those lazy, no good n*ggers be more like virtuous hard-working me?

Chris Rock puts it better than I ever could... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kxp9CEJeAg

Oh shit, I pissed off The Master...

***DISCLAIMER FOR REMAINDER OF THREAD***
I am using the terms black and white instead of African-American and Caucasian simply because they are shorter and easier to type. If that offends anyone....fuck you.

First of all I NEVER used the word "inferior". Nobody is inferior at the time of their birth.

Second...yes, I admitted to speaking anecdotally even though my experience is a decently equivalent comparison (however small the sample size) to this conversation.

Third...were those really the youtubes you meant to post?

Fourth...Everything Chris Rock or any other comedian says is irrelevant.


Feel free to explain to me why blacks in 2012 find it so hard to succeed AS A WHOLE. (I realize there are successful black people and monumental failures of white/brown/yellow people. I'm talking about the races statistically, as a whole) Since my anecdotes aren't good enough of a reason for any shortcomings, please cite me the empirical scientific studies that show how racism or disenfranchisement causes the continual depression of black society as a whole (lower income/less education/higher unemployment/higher crime rate).

Do you want the scientific research via textbook, book, or peer reviewed journal?

Textbook:
Farley, J. E. (2004). Majority-minorify relations (5th ed.). Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall.

Book:
Carter, Prudence L. Keepin ' It Real: School Success Beyond Black and White. New
York: Oxford University Press, 2005.

Fordham, S. (1996). Blacked out: Dilemmas of race, identity, and success at Capital High.
Chicago: University of Chicago.


Journals:
A Qualitative Inquiry on the Multidimensional Racial Development among First-Year African American College Students Attending a Predominately White Institution.

http://ezproxy.vccs.edu:2048/login?url=http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=ehh&AN=75324760&site=ehost-live

Achievement as Resistance: The Development of a Critical Race Achievement Ideology among Black Achievers.

http://ezproxy.vccs.edu:2048/login?url=http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=ehh&AN=34739488&site=ehost-live

Ethnic Segregation and Perceived Discrimination in College: Mutual Influences and Effects on Social and Academic Life.

http://ezproxy.vccs.edu:2048/login?url=http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=a9h&AN=20888665&site=ehost-live

Gender Matters, Too: The Influences of School Racial Discrimination and Racial Identity on Academic Engagement Outcomes Among African American Adolescents.

http://ezproxy.vccs.edu:2048/login?url=http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=a9h&AN=31948680&site=ehost-live

Zand, D. H., & Thomson, N. R. (2005). Academic achievement among African American
adolescents: Direct and indirect effects of demographic, individual, and contextual
variables. Journal of Black Psychology, 31, 352-368.

Yay, reading material.