So, Mr. Junior Sociologist, what are the factors that lead or led to the "Black Culture" rejecting mainstream American values? You lose points if you just claim "rap", as that is something that has been happening since the before rap was around.

In addition, are you familiar with the circumstances in other ethnic neighborhoods in earlier era's of US history? Or even modern issues, such as integration of Hmong in Northern California, Russians in Sacramento and New York, Vietnamese just about anywhere, and what factors may have contributed to the difficulty of integration?

Since I'm operating on 3 hours sleep I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. I'm guessing disagreeing with me, so please enlighten me as to why African-Americans in today's society (or in pre-rap days) disassociate with mainstream America.

Pop culture is a huge contributing factor to the general habits of all races in today's society. Especially since pop culture can be accessed 24/7 and as conveniently as possible, usually from the phone in their pocket.

And at no point have I claimed to be an expert in the subject of sociology, which is why almost all of my examples are based in personal experience which I'll admit is SOMEWHAT limited. I did not grow up in the inner city, but as I stated before, I did grow up as the minority in my own high school and neighborhood.

I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with you at this point, but I am hoping to get you to think outside your own small venue. Anecdote is note evidence.

The effects of Slavery, segregation, and Jim Crow are far reaching, and it is frustrating for folks to say "well, that ended XX years ago, why can't they get over it?" as if it were a simple issue. It's not. It's an incredibly complicated subject.

To make matters worse, it is hard to study objectively. I'm not saying you're a racist, per se, but I can tell you that the same things happened to me, at my school, at the hands of my fellow whites.

Oh believe me, I'm in no way saying the whites I grew up with were saints by any stretch of the imagination. I was speaking statistically, from my own experience, in an environment that seems relevant to this discussion.

If I went to a high school that was 96% white (we have a few of those in this area), then any of my "opinions" or "observations" would be completely unfounded. I agree that society is SOME of the problem, but overall culture is a larger part of the problem. I'm sure there's "evidence" to the contrary in some of the more dire circumstances in this country, but there are plenty of trailer parks around full of poor white folks too.

I guess this convo will go nowhere. The ones who simply disagree with me will think of me as a bigot, and the ones who agree with me (even on some small level) likely won't speak up. Such is life. I enjoy being the minority voice on this forum (pun intended).

And I'm not asking anyone to get over anything (psychologically). But indeed after a certain number of years/generations the effect has to lessen and eventually go away.

I fell as though this subject will still be around when I'm old and grey. None of this makes me happy and I truly do believe in equality, I just don't see what the solution is. I don't believe welfare does much at all to "advance" anyone, it simply props them up to survive with minimal effort.

fell = feel*

years is a good description.. i understand that,

It is so tiresome coming into a discussion like this. It is almost impossible to read every damn post. In my experience the African American community at large tends to actively alienate themselves from the rest of society. I cite Ebonics, the systematic but intentional butchering of the English language, as a prime example of this. Ebonics is a linguistic barrier that the African American (not black) community has put in place. You can argue that it is the school systems fault, but i will just laugh at you. I know more than 10 African Americans by name who have completed 4 year engineering degrees and all but 2 of them still speak like uneducated retards. The other 2 were raised by a white father and Japanese mother.

My argument goes will beyond the linguistic separation though. Look at the way a typical African American behaves, then look at they way a typical man who immigrated here from Nigeria or Uganda or Namibia behaves. I have been working in Houston for 3 months this summer and I have yet to mistake a black immigrant for an African American, and have made the converse mistake only once. I encourage you to do the same in your city and then think very long and hard about what the similarities between the two demographics are and what their differences are. They both typically come from destitute backgrounds with high rates of poverty and illiteracy.
The question I pose is then this. How is it that so many immigrants (many of them working as cabys) are finding the money to put away to send their children to college, and yet the African American population still stagnates.

The issue of slavery and segregation is just a bunch of bullshit plain and simple. Every culture ate one point or another going back to the Babylonians has been farmed by stronger nations for slaves. The African Community that was displaced by slavery by European and American powers has had more aid than any other previously enslaved group and done far less with their freedom. Many individuals have the mentalities that their for fathers paid their dues for them, and they are therefor owed something. Never mind the face that the immigrating Irish and Chinese were living in equally bad, even if slightly different, conditions during the heyday of slavery in the Americas.

Thrax you know de10mile always has your back. I'll see you at the next NRA convention right?