sam you should resign as a mod, just a piece of advice.

I'm trying to understand where i stand.
I didn't respond to get myself unbanned.
I have some reasonable questions though
and since some mods showed up here,
i would appreciate their enlightenment
since most of them are around for years.

'Maybe you learn for this, maybe you just
continue doing what you were doing and
this all happens again some other day.'

That's my fucking issue about this ban.
The theoretical approach you have on it.
As long as you all, don't decide what is
acceptable and what is not; how players
should react on such situations; this
grey zone will continue to be grey.

I'm pretty sure any other mod would had
at least the tact to warn me. advice me.
and finally ban me if i was doing something
wrong. As long as you didn't, let me think
and believe this was an insincere and
based on spite ban.

well, yesterday I tried writing a paragraph to cover 2v1 situations

It's close to impossible to define what's acceptable (ganging up on a noob with several experienced players) and what not.

Then I had the same problem trying to define acceptable middle win situations, partly because that's what Fonias's situation was. When is it OK to flag the middle, when is it more like a favor to your friend in the middle. It's so damn hard to define and so many small factors (did someone else hit you so you had to flag middle in order to fight off that person, just one example) change the situation. It's just so subjective and everybody has a different idea about what acceptable play is and what isn't. And how to compare situations and try and find consistent bans? I have no problem with nodice deserving a gold medal: he wasn't to blame there and I did ban the main favoring guy at that last 5k but let's be honest: the favoring in that game was truly sick and if Fonias received a ban here, shouldn't I or Sam have been more drastic in our bans and reactions back then?

so I am starting to think that a rulebook is impossible. But we are all supposed to have common sense too! If you are in doubt about a favor being too much, why not just not do it to be safe? Some obvious favors, game after game or on a regular basis HAVE to be eliminated from KDice or the competition will further detoriate.

We don't play anonymous dice and there is a chatbox so trusting and trucing friends more in some situations is human nature but there should be a line somewhere.

Sam is right that it's hard to judge based on one game alone because the rules will always be grey. So if a pattern is there of consistently favoring your friends, then a ban is needed (and the last drop to trigger the ban doesn't have to be the most blatant favor of all the ones you witnessed)

Warnings are very important though, even for the experienced players. I am not talking about sharing or proxy or pga, well almost all types of offences, in those cases BR has a point that the experienced players should KNOW what the rules are.

But with these favor problems, the issue is still pretty new and so verbal warnings seem like a good way to go at first. I think I've given out my fair share of warnings to people about overfriendly play. So I am going to keep doing that and I hope we can get rid of the excessive favoring in some games.

some autoregulation would be nice too: when you see the same players favoring each other time afer time, why not confront them? It doesn't have to be agressive or in order to get a ban. Just point out the problem and keep the discussion civil if possible. Maybe it doesn't take much before everyone will start playing a bit less otf.

cliffnotes: it's going to be impossible to have very black and white easy to apply rules. games will be more fun if everybody will play more to win

bottom line: reduce the number of favors to friends and keep otf playstyles to an absolute minimum

tl;dr @ sam (but thank you jurgen)

sam did say this though "As mods we are fucking tired of that shit."

I believe mods get the most nice treatment than any other player. I know thraxle AND jurgen AND vermont have been given games hey didnt deserve while i was playing with them.

I don't believe it's their fault and Sam may even receive the same treatment I just don't play that often with him. The games I do play with him I know he's a terrible truce partner and will turn if it benefits him.

No one could have said this better than jurg just did.

Nice answer Jurgen, two remarks:

*Without any strict rules, judging will always be subjective. In this game it's impossible to clear the grey zone, people (should) know that when they start playing. It's like football, some referees give a yellow card, some a red.
Therefore, referees and players shouldn't play together, they have a role.

*With the system of 100-500-2K-5K, you will always have the problem of good players who meet each other more at high tables then beginners. Giving favors is human, because (you think) you know someone and he or she can be useful in the future to get a favor back.
Therefore, just make all tables 500, the best player will be on top of the rank at the end of the month. The chance that 'friends' will play with each other a lot is reduced this way.

The removal of 2k-5k might have that effect. On the other hand, the game would become dull. If everyone would have to play on 500 tables, it's basically the one who plays the most games that will win at the end of the month. It's playing at 2k/5k tables that makes this game interesting, especially at the end of the month.
Indeed giving favors is of human nature, but don't forget that all 'top' players used to play at 0-100 tables as well, and stayed there for a long long time.

Well, you'll have to make a choice:

*Keep the system and don't whine about it

*Change the system and make it more fair: in football you get 3 points if you win, it doens't matter if you're in the Champions League or at the very lowest level. Of course the social aspect of the game will be changed.

*Combination: make all tables 500 till the 20th or 25th of the month; play-offs with 2K and 5K tables played by top 100 or 200 or 50 will decide after. I don't agree that more playing is more gaining, it depends on your skills to win or lose all those games.

HOW about Ryan just lower the table limit for 500's to 10k? That limit is rid-iK-o-lus! To say the least. That way we would get more players to play 2k and even out the players a bit.

Removing the 2/5k is just not gonna happend. If there is a problem that there isin't enough players to play a 2k at some hours, well.. create a 1k table then.

well, I just thought I put that out there even if it's a lil off topic.

I don't think it's off topic Smurf. The reason friendly moves exist, is that only the happy few play on the high tables. Bigger chance to make allies, enemies, deals, cheats etc.

Removing 2K and create 1K seems a good move. Risks are very high at 5K, a few players will play, mods can easier watch those tables.