Forum
Jurgen and the MODerator system
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nixx wrote
at 10:04 AM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
Let me begin by saying that I am NOT writing this as an insult to Jurgen or to any of the other MOD's.
What I am doing is questioning / discussing the current MOD system. Without talking to Ryan personally, I can only guess at the reasoning behind having MODERATORS as actual players of the game, but Im sure they are (and not limited to) some of the following: 1. The MODS are in the games, know the game , and like the game. 2. The MODS will not be immediately recognized as a MODERATOR in every game, and as such, the MOD's will witness a lot of uncensored chat and game play. 3. The MODS are probably free to Ryan. Possibly compensated with some free memberships / and or a feeling of authority. With that said, its obvious that Ryan is running a business. The KDice, GPokr, and Xsketch sites are successful web businesses that I have enjoyed for years, along with many other players. I am also sure that the inexpensive / friendly gaming environments that Ryan has created have brought him a lot of financial success, and I congratulate / aspire this as a fellow programmer. I believe the current MOD system changes the games to an extent that jeopardizes the future success of these sites. The reasoning for my frustration: Jurgen recently accused me of being in violation of the game rules. The Justification for his accusations: Not accepting a verbal flag from Moulue during a members tournament. I would like to go over the actual rules of the game for those of you who have not read them. The rules of the game are simple: 1.Do not use pornographic Avatars. (My Avatar is a black square, and has been for several weeks, before that, it was the Mandelbrot set for a very long time.) 2. Do not harass people. (OK,well, this one is a little vague, what constitutes harassment? Honestly, I have, like a lot of others, in the past gotten angry in the chat box over the outcome of a game. Note though that my treatment of other players was never in question during this members tournament or any other ring game in the past.) 3. Do Not Use Hate Language or Avatars. ( See my responses to Rule 2 and 3...Furthermore, I am not a racist, and do not use racist language. The only Biased thing I do on this website is go easier on girls with cute pictures of themselves....Brighty is a perfect example.) 4. Game to Game favors are not allowed. ( I was accused of being in alliance with 2 players in a 9 player members tournament. MC and another player whose name I cant even remember. For the record, I do not know these players in real life, nor have I any arrangement with them for mutually beneficial game outcomes. Jurgen accuses me of this, but cannot ever prove this, because it is SIMPLY NOT TRUE). 5. Play only one account at a time. (I have several accounts Nix, Nixx, Nixxx, Nixxxx, etc. I have only ever played one of them at a time. If this is to be questioned, I rerfer Ryan to his own servers history records.) So...with all of the above said, the following was posted on my review page by Jurgen after Moulue reported me minutes after the conclusion of the members tournament. serious warning: can't call it pga with "MC"/zoid for sure but very fishy screw of molou at the very least. Game 1: you don't let him fight for 3rd for a made up reason. Game 2 before heads up: you don't let him fight again because you accept the weirdest "I won't cut you for 2nd" when there wasn't even a real cut on. Next fishy play will mean a ban. -avatar jurgen 7:43 PM, Saturday September 10, 2011 CDT Notice that Jurgen was able to post this on my review page with the warning category listed as Avatar. I guess there is not a category for warnings regarding NOT ACCEPTING VERBAL FLAGS. I bet that is because NOT ACCEPTING VERBAL FLAGS IS NOT A VIOLATION OF THE RULES. I wonder why not accepting verbal flags is not a rule.. Probably because it is sometimes WISE TO DO SO, seeing as the the goal of KDICE IS TO WIN POINTS WITHIN THE RULES AND PARAMETERS OF THE GAME! Flags are in place to shorten games, not as a tool for players to think they are guaranteed safety, at the cost of other players expansion and game progress. Let me go over how I handle verbal flags: If a verbal flag hurts my game.I do not accept it. If a verbal flag is neutral to my game.I sometimes accept it. If a verbal flag helps my game. I accept it. In conclusion, MODerators should not have the ability to arbitrarily assign negative warnings on players review page. I agree that pornographic, racist and otherwise inappropriate language and avatars should not be tolerated, however, I think that there is too much wiggle room for the MODerators. They are not there to analyze the way I win games. They are there to, based on facts, and never capriciously, assign warnings to players that are in clear violation of the actual rules of the game. I want this post to begin a serious discussion about authority and discretion given to the MODerators. This POST has been EMAILED to RYAN as well. |
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0632242545 wrote
at 1:19 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT Unfortunately nix, most people don't care enough to post. Those that do are either trying to score brownie points with the moderators or are moderators themselves that publicly have to agree with eachother regardless of whether or not they disagree privately (it's a rule ryan made for moderators). Ultimately all the lemmings will agree with the mod regardless of whether he is right or wrong and very few people will give these sorts of posts an evenhanded response. I hope Ryan responds to your email, you've been around here longer than anyone nix and you probably know the best how the game has changed for better or worse as the style of moderation has changed.
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Thraxle wrote
at 1:34 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT Keep one thing in mind veta, if it weren't for players like DLK and yourself (amongst many others), we might not even have any mods. It was DLK that inspired me to request Ryan to allow me to moderate. If cheaters didn't press the limits of people's patience we would likely have no moderators.
In short, you can thank yourself for the system of moderation that has become. |
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0632242545 wrote
at 2:33 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT Um I had nothing to go with DLK, and I was put of the limelight for 6 months after tetriscube. Then Onix wasnt even banned for cheating, just from the suspicion that it was shared. I didn't play for another 10 months, during that period is when all the new moderators were appointed. I assume because of Jona, Johnson, and Zoid pushing boundaries (not me). Don't get me wrong I see the point you're trying to make but don't point a finger at me. By the time I finally returned to dice, as Boner Oiler. I was a pretty clean player, I was only playing to win and had no scheme up my sleeve. In February I was playing to beat kam's record ASR, and I did. There was no scheme there either. If there was you or someone would've got wind of it like you got wind of all my schemes right? Between all the moderators watching my games if any of them got a whiff of foul play they would've banned me and had me reset for real, not the bullshit bans Sam and jurgen gave me for "pobuba", impersonating dddy, and filling a table with an alt.
So either I'm a much better cheater than you make me out to be or I simply didn't cheat for a year and a half. I maintain the latter and I'm sure you do too but jurgen banning me indefinitely for cursing someone out was enough to make me play the scheme game again. Do don't get the story wrong, either I'm an amazing cheater that couldn't have anything pinned on him or you're shitty moderators that couldn't catch me or the reality - I didn't have to cheat. |
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Thraxle wrote
at 2:43 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT I didn't say you had anything to do with DLK. I was simply placing you two in the same bucket as cheaters/schemers.
My point is that my birth as a moderator was spawned by a cheater. Since you like making real life analogies I'll compare it to laws. If everyone obeyed the law there would be no need for a criminal courts system. If DLK hadn't cheated so hardcore that month there would have never been the creation of KDICEMOD. That creation spawned me busting my ass for free for about a year trying to catch cheaters (like yourself). After I grew tired of doing that I decided to nominate some new players to help me moderate, which has led to more nominations and more mods (albeit not all active at once). I'm sure you'd prefer that there be no moderators at all, and then this nixx fella would be on here bitching about a lack of moderation and how he gets cheated by PGA groups all the time. I don't care if you were clean for X amount of time or not, the bottom line is that you have a prior record here on KDice and that has led to everything beyond that. Is it possible that you've been overreacted on at times? Sure. But that is your own doing. Criminals with prior records get far less leniancy with judges as compared to one's with no priors. |
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0632242545 wrote
at 2:52 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT Like I said if a system is in place thats badgering innocent players that system needs to be revised. To use your analogy theres a reason it's "innocent until proven guilty" and illegal to take pictures of non-tried suspects in custody in many countries.
Nix has been here longer than you and me Rob so why don't we ask him what the best time in kdice was to be a regular player. I dint think he'll say today and I'd wager many seasoned veterans that are still active would agree (with the exception of players that have mods in their pocket, e.g. Monte, das, skyler, gurgi, etc.) |
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dasfury wrote
at 3:25 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT You would lose that wager.
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dasfury wrote
at 3:26 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT I preferred, and have always made it known, that the game was better without vflags.
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dasfury wrote
at 3:29 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT I wasn't aware that playing FFB with a group of people from kdice (including one retired mod and one active one) means that I have 'mods in my pocket.' Not like that would mean anything anyway.
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Thraxle wrote
at 3:32 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT Veta's only way to justify how he got "permabanned" from a website is to think that the mods at said website are corrupt and play favorites.
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0632242545 wrote
at 5:07 PM, Monday September 12, 2011 EDT You do play favorites and I don't really feel permabanned so that never factored into my thought process. I'm not saying mods are corrupt I'm saying they're easily manipulated. (see: me getting dddy banned, zoid getting unbanned, etc)
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