Forum
I saw this, and liked it
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Barack H Obama wrote
at 8:39 PM, Friday July 15, 2011 EDT
This is dedicated to all you self proclaimed conscientious patriots, We want to get this straight.
You didn’t get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President. You didn’t get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate energy policy. You didn’t get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed. You didn’t get mad when the Patriot Act got passed. You didn’t get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us. You didn’t get mad when we spent over 600 billion(and counting) on said illegal war. You didn’t get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq. You didn’t get mad when you saw the Abu Grahib photos. You didn’t get mad when you found out we were torturing people. You didn’t get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans. You didn’t get mad when we didn’t catch Bin Laden. You didn’t get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed. You didn’t get mad when we let a major US city drown. You didn’t get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark. You finally got mad when.. when… wait for it… when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick. Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all ok with you but helping other Americans… well fuck that. That about right? You know it is. You people have all lost your fucking minds. You are selfish, greedy, obnoxious, narcissistic, and frankly… stupid. Your pathetic little misspelled protest signs are embarrassing. Maybe you ought to find the smart person in your midst and let them make up all the signs, cause man, you look like a bunch of idiots. Also you’re ugly and your mother dresses you funny. |
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deadcode wrote
at 1:37 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT if*
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deadcode wrote
at 1:39 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT And Mrk; I'm sorry you can't make the connection between the videos and health care; but I can't spoon feed you everything. Either make the connection or let's just agree to disagree and you can go on believing whatever you want.
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mr Kreuzfeld wrote
at 1:49 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT http://hospitals.webometrics.info/top100_continent.asp?cont=europe
in general about half of the top 1000 hospitals where public the one less than 5 minutes from me rankes 182 in the world, YEA I would definitly let them get me world class healtcare for free |
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Thraxle wrote
at 1:56 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT Well the way other countries do it Rob is the doctors in charge of patients get bonuses if say: any of their patients quit smoking, lose weight (if obese), basically if their patients get healthier they get a bonus. It works really well.
Why does the doctor get a bonus. We don't need to spend more money. We need to GET more money from those that don't take care of themselves. |
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mr Kreuzfeld wrote
at 2:04 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT as friedman said "it is desirable to have some money spent by government, for those things, those services, that we believe we can get more usefully, more effectfully from government..." ^^"broken window fallacy" has to do with if size of government is good for the sake of having a big government. it is about if government spending is good for itself. the broken window is about if it is good to use the money on nothing! as friedman said, "it is desirable to have some money spent by government, for those things, those services, that we believe we can get more usefully, more effectfully from government..." sossel said "if the people value the things produced by the government more than than the things they would have bought...... governmentspending should be based on the merit of the spending, not the fallacious view that it will create jobs" so, I HAVE NEVER ARGUED AGAINST THIS I have argued that healtcare merit spending, and the service of healthcare can be produces more usefully by the government so as I said "what does these videos have to do with this debate?" the argumet was about if socialised medicine provides a better coverage, and is cheaper, than private healthcare that private does. so if we assume that socialised medicine is better, then sobel and friedman would agree according to the statements |
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skrumgaer wrote
at 2:48 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT Healthcare is not a public good like defense. It is a functioning private market (but not completely competitive--the degree of competitiveness depends on the particular state regulations). Public health, safety, and morals are traditionally a state issue and there is no reason for the federal government to get involved except for DC and the territories or situations where there is a clear relation to interstate commerce or customs or other of its enumerated powers.
There might be some constitutional basis for the federal government offering health care to citizens or health insurance, but the federal government should not interfere with individual's rights to purchase other health care in the markets or the rights of health insurance companies to have preexisting condition clauses, yearly caps, lifetime caps, and the like. |
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Boner Oiler wrote
at 2:48 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT The doctor gets money because its assumed that if he has a patient that is unhealthy and the patient becomes healthy the doctor convinced him to do so. It is an incentive for your doctor to advise you to be more healthy, preventative medicine is the most important as they say.
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Boner Oiler wrote
at 2:51 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT You know that expression skrum: "if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck, then its probably a duck"?
If a market doesn't behave like a free market, if it doesnt self regulate like a free market, and if it doesn't provide ever increasing quality of service for lower costs then it probably isn't a free market. the healthcare industry, aside from the cosmetic procedures industry, is not a free market. as such it should not be treated as one, much like law enforcement and national defense are not. |
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Boner Oiler wrote
at 2:51 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT i'm sure that's not too difficult for you to understand right skrum?
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skrumgaer wrote
at 2:53 PM, Monday July 18, 2011 EDT BO:
You should try to comprehend posts before responding to them. States would not have to regulate health care if it was a perfectly free market. |
