I am not an economist, but in my amateur opinion there will never be a definitive end to the debate between Keynes and Hayek.

But I can't help but think the current debate in the US has very little to do with the merits of deficit spending (mind you, deficit spending has no party affiliation, it is done by both parties, although guess which administration was the last to have a budget surplus?) and more to do with an emotional response, whether from economic hardship, or just plain old anger that the idealized vision of a white, Christian USA is fading in the rear-view mirror very quickly.

Look, thrax, I don't know the breadth of, nor the particulars of the political philosophy that you espouse (I try to stay away from political discussions on the internet, especially here) and I would hate to lump you in with those whose views are largely formed by libidinous rage and plain old racism. But I think it is disingenuous, and serves an agenda that doesn't value reasonable discussion, to say that the man accomplished nothing positive for the country in his first two years as president.

I'll restrain myself from commenting on snow leopard's poorly phrased regurgitation of spoon-fed talking points, expertly administered to the dim-witted by those who have no desire to foster meaningful discourse, but to create a bot-net of manufactured rage to drown out the few of us left who try to see the world with an open mind.

Clinton's administration had a surplus thanks to Newt Gingrich's conservative republican congress.

nice run-on sentence to end, and bot-net is the wrong word there...its a server cluster designed to take down website from an DMT attack or whatever its called

wait a second - are you telling me the president is a black man??? next thing you will tell me is he is muslim

Nodice that's a pretty racist fucking comment there. Pretty surprised at your idiocy.

All you stupid fucking liberals can do is claim racism when someone doesn't like Obama. You make me sick.

A few points to you liberal racist fucktards out there.

1: Bush passed TARP1 OBAMA PASSED TARP2. Please learn the difference.

2: The health care bill was bullshit

3: If your really wanna blame someone the dems are a pretty good start CONSIDERING THAT IN THE PAST 50 YEARS THEY HAVE CONTROLLED THE HOUSE OVER 80% OF THE TIME!!!

4: Just because you think bush is an idiot doesn't make it so. The man couldn't give a speech to save his life but public speaking is not a sign of intelligence. Obama himself sucks pretty badly at it and has to use a telepromter ALWAYS

5: Bush inherited Clinton's Recession and Clinton inherited Bush 1's and Reagen's economic boom time. Please learn how the economy works mmmmmmk?

6: Pelosi and Obama raised our defecit by over 3 trillion dollars. (low ball estimate) Most of that waste had little or no effect on the economy. Plz don't tell me that health care reform helped the economy.

7: When you spout racist bullshit like "oh it you just don't like the black man," you should be shot. There is a small amount of the US who dislikes Obama because he is black. There is a much larger % that like him because HE IS BLACK (or half black but who cares). Tell me WHO IS THE RACIST?

8: Over 50% of people in the US think that Obama talks down to them in speeches. This has nothing to do with Bush.

9:Congress ignored Bush and let the collapse happen so they could sweep the government come 2010.

10: Obama was the 2nd largest recipient of money from Fanny and Freddy IN THE HISTORY OF THOSE 2 COMPANIES (since the 70's) in only 2 years as a senator. The man was bought before he stepped foot in Washington.

Ron, please note my response to you:

"And if I could "deficit spend" in my life I'd be accomplishing some shit too."

I'm openly admitting he's accomplishing "some" things, but at the cost of unparalleled deficit spending. The things he's accomplished, while mostly positive, have not taken care of the real issues facing America today. Americans need jobs. The Federal Government needs less deficit spending (some is necessary at this point). All the pet projects that his idealized agenda has pushed forward with should have taken a back burner to the real problems we're faced with.

I haven't once said the guy has accomplished "nothing". I simply feel that the things he's accomplished have little to do with the most paramount issues facing our country.

The stimulus bill was wasteful and full of earmarks (Obama has admitted as much to the earmarks). The unemployment rate remains high. Unemployment benefit claims remain high and many people are happy to continue receiving the jobless benefit instead of taking jobs that are available, but pay less than their unemployment benefit does. The real estate market is still in shambles and shows little to no sign of recovery, etc., etc.

I just want him to keep his eye on the ball. With a Republican majority in the House he'll be forced to do that now.

What insightful points you make, yodel.

Between your dismissal of actual economic facts and your defense of W's intelligence, I think we've got most of our limbaugh vomit bases covered.

Though I think you could've gone a little more indepth with "the health care bill is bullshit" point. I mean, you enitrely left out the mandate on killing the elderly and socialized rationing of medicine.

Jesus Yodel calm down, it was a joke.

http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/bushfuckedusall.jpg

Bush wishes he got "blamed" for the state of the nation after Clinton...It was in it's best shape economically since before the turn of the century.

It's fine to disagree with the economic theories presented by the current administration; heck, there are even a small percentage of respected economists that would agree with you. But also recognize that opinion isn't fact (or even economic certainty) just because 50% of people adhere to it. Especially when those %50 don't know anything about economics.

As far not having to face any "national crises." In 8 years Bush had 9/11, Katrina and small portion of the recession. He doesn't get credit for the two wars we initiated without any exit strategy. We initiated those. In 20 months Obama has had to take on the worst recession in 75 years, two inherited wars, and the oil spill. Bush inherited record surplus and left a record deficit. Soo, let's not get in a presidential dick measuring contest.

And by the way, around half of that "wasteful spending" went to tax refunds. YEAH THAT'S RIGHT, you're paying less taxes under the Obama administration than you did under Bush.

All you have to do is pay a little bit of attention, listen to a few legit economists, and stop watching Fox all the time and you might actually have something valid to argue instead of passing you opinion off as if it's a legitimate argument for or against something.