Wow, you just contradicted yourself in just one post. The goal should be to get 1st place, but if you are 2nd or 3rd, you should flag. What happened to trying to get 1st place? I'm not trying to diss you wicked or anything like that, and you make it sound like I'm critical of the system. I'm not. But if 3 people are vying for first place, and only separated by a few lands.... then what? Should you go for the first place, and if you fail, you get severly punished? Or do you flag, and still get punished by dropping out early... particularly if there's a 4th person just limping along.....

i think the most accurate metaphor to describe playing the new version is that it's like jerking off left handed. awkward, agonizing, furiously attempting to recreate the magic of the other way, and finally just giving up frustrated

I didn't contradict myself. I was just saying that since the main goal of the game is to get first, and not to be close to first is the reason why first place gets so many points. Yes, you can get secon/third and still get points, but unless you think you have a chance at first, flagging to save what little points you may have isn't a bad idea.

Hey Ryan: thanks very much for all the work your putting in that great game!! I just love it TO EVERYONE SAYING THE CHANGES ARE CRAP: give the new kdice a chance. Changes make things different but not automatically bad (Many people are generally confusing this two points)

the new monster that has been created here is the "i won't flag until X is dead / X flags" situation. if I have 10 squares, someone else has 20, and someone else has 2 and they are on the opposite side of this ocean of 1st-place, it's insane for me to flag for 3rd place. but that guy with 2 might have 0 rating and no incentive to flag for a negative score, so we have to sit here and bleed points -- in fact 1st place is incentivized to exacerbate the situation -- this is the new part of the game that sucks so much and this is why i doubt it will be any fun at LEAST until i get lucky enough to go on a win streak and play at a 50 or 100 table

holla if you hear me

I think udb has a point Wicked, ive been in situations where two people dominate two halves of the board and when they finally reach each other, they have basically the same standing (in # of dice and properties). It can take a quite a few rounds for someone to show they have an edge. In the old scoring, this was ok, because 2nd still got decent points. I understand that you can flag earlier if the other person has an edge (however minimal), but that kills the spirit of the game (it's almost like wussing out). I want to fight and be sure i'm in second before i flag, but getting 0 points shows nothing for having a good game to have a fighting chance at 1st. The points system just needs a little more work to balance out the final "pot", but I think Ryan will come up with a way to do this soon.

suggested fixes to the situation i just described:

1) make it so player A can "surrender" to player B, but not to C, D, E, F, and G who all have 1 territory a piece

2) make a new version of kdice where players can be "aggressive" or "defensive" toward other players -- if you are on the defensive you will get 1 fewer dice per attack and 1 extra die for defense, and vice versa for aggressive. so if i make myself defensive against the guy who has 20 lands and i have 10, he will have to attack me 8 vs 9 every time, but he knows i am not likely to attack him 7 vs 8 ever.

yeah you are right decalotus, in a nutshell, the new system squelches creativity.

also just an addendum to my aggressive / defensive idea -- if this were ever implemented, i would make it such that the person who changes their status from neutral to aggressive, has the penalty for the whole 1st turn after the change, of being -1 on defenses, but +0 on attacks instead of +1. that way you try to limit the frequency of changing status since you are vulnerable during transition turns.

I like the new version and this is the biggest reason why: you know what you're going to end up with for points when you flag.
This discourages "ninja-ing". It just doesn't pay off to do this anymore. Actually, I don't think it ever did. ninjaing was one of my biggest pet peeves about the old version.