And Pierce, that's like saying it's not a kids responsibility to avoid walking into traffic if he gets hit by a car.

I'm not saying he deserved his fate, I'm saying that the racial overtone to this story is bullshit. Don't mistake me for defending Zimmerman, because I'm not. I think he's guilty as fuck and probably deserves a needle in the arm. I simply get tired of hearing about the racial motivation behind the crime. It's horseshit.

First off, that's a TERRIBLE comparison. Basic pedestrian safety does not equate to not wearing a hoodie so you don't get shot by a neighborhood watch. I mean really?

Secondly, I understand your point. I don't know how you know there wasn't racial motivation - but of course, neither of us was there nor are Zimmerman. Frankly, I find it hard to believe the situation would've happened were the kid white. But regardless, that's not what I was arguing with.

What I'm arguing with is simply your (I think and correct me if I'm wrong) assertion that some of the responsibility falls on the teenager because of his outfit. If he threw a punch, sure, he bears some responsibility. But because he was wearing a sweatshirt outside? Cmon man.

I wear a hoodie and jeans pretty much 100% of the time I'm not at work. I wonder how many people "wonder if I'm up to no good." I bet it's way fewer than if I were black. And I think in that - a big key here is what exactly people mean in the "racial motivation" you disagree with.

Did he shoot the kid because he was black? I doubt it. No I don't think many people think Zimmerman said "Hmm, a black kid. I'm going to shoot him." AND if people are suggesting that, then I totally agree. They are blowing it out of proportion most likely. However, I think there's a pretty distinct different between that and saying: If Trayvon Martin had been a white teenager, Zimmerman would have reacted differently to the situation and no one would have died. That is what most people are saying and I think it's a pretty fair and realistic idea.

I won't disagree with that assertion, but I also don't think he was singled out simply because he was black. I don't think Zimmerman said "hey, a black kid, let's go question him". I'd bet he was doing "something" that warranted suspicion outside of him being "black" and "hoodied". Again though, all this is heresay and will hopefully come out in the trial.

There is plenty I don't know about this story that should eliminate me from the conversation anyways, I just hate the racial stories in the news all the fucking time. Hate will NEVER die until it's allowed to die.

If we want racism to die then the rich media needs to stop making EVERYTHING racially motivated. If white folks want racism to die then they need to open their eyes and hearts and stop prejudging. If black folks want racism to die they should stop making rap songs and hip-hop about doing drugs and killing mothafuckas (which leads to the prejudging aforementioned).


More examples:

I will usually not trust a white kid in a black trenchcoat prior to striking up a conversation with them or already knowing them. Columbine taught me that. Is that fair? No. Is it reality? Yes.

I will usually not trust a black kid with his ass hanging out of his jeans and a "fuck the police" tee shirt. Television/movies teaches me that. Is that fair? No. Is it reality? Yes.

I will usually not trust a car full of Hispanics in a low rider wearing doo rags. Television/movies teaches me that. Is that fair? No. Is it reality? Yes.



You say Trayvon was detained because he was black, but I say if he was wearing khakis and a collared shirt he wouldn't have been confronted. We live in a world that teaches us to be biased towards certain things, but it doesn't have to be skin color. Blacks will claim "but that is how we dress", but it is also how black thugs are dressed in movies and TV shows. It offers a preconceived notion.

So yes, I think you are responsible for what you wear and how you portray yourself.

thrax, what these liberal "advocates" don't realize is that people like me and you don't like to contribute to racism in today's society. when these kids talk about these issues in terms of race, they have no clue that they are simply propagating racial tensions. especially in this situation, when they have no fucking clue as to exactly what went down. the sad thing is that most african-americans feel the same way as you and I, and want to eventually end racism by NOT always labeling people as black or white and bringing race into a particular circumstance. the only people that are quick to allege racial motivations in situations such as this one are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and we all know that they thrive off of black-white tensions and would be nobodies if racism were to cease to exist. in conclusion, fuck you all.

I see what you're saying there, Thrax. Though I still disagree on the wardrobe responsibility :-)

Ah Harry, the bastion of intelligent discourse on KDice.

If we could avoid turning this into a liberal v conservative debate that'd be awesome. I think it's only realistic to suggest that the pervasive racial tensions that cloud our societal interactions probably influenced this event. Rob and I are discussing this influence and arguing about personal responsibility.

But yes, every liberal is out to promote racism and ruin your and your black friends' day.

The racial issue goes beyond Zimmerman though, you had the actions or inaction of law enforcement and in general lack of care about this case for almost a month before it gained traction. The reaction by the black community made too much of race, but they feel so disenfranchised because for the most part people don't give a shit about young black men dying. Had this happened under Bush it never would have gained traction, but Obama being president has stirred a lot of racial tension on both sides.

America in general cares about cute little girls that go missing, Caylee Anthony, Natalie Holloway etc.. We don't give a shit about young men, especially if they are black. Those stories just don't make good news, this has been the case for a long time. I rather none of these stories because national news and local law enforcement had the trust of the people to handle these cases in a competent manner free from corruption.

As long as cunt rags like Nancy Grace and douchnozzles like Geraldo Rivera have national voices, stories like these will always be blown out of context. Fuck the media.

I don't think it's entirely fair to blame people like Nancy Grace, she has her job because she's a huge cunt. Why is CNN in the business of hiring huge cunts? Because that's what their viewership clearly wants/likes. We're to blame for the Giraldo Riveras, Glenn Becks and Nancy Graces getting national voices, but on a deeper level we're more to blame as a society for constructing a framework that encourages the media to pander like this.


My prescription would be to scrap our current media framework and to adopt a new one or at least one that isn't completely dysfunctional like those of Norway/Sweden/Germany/France/UK et cetera.

I could buy that if we as a nation didn't collectively hate those wastes on the Jersey Shore but continue to obsess over them. Look we can blame the media, but it is our fault not theirs. You want to scrap the current system and institute national broadcasting? Sure lets forgive our individual responsibility and just let the government feed us "intelligent discourse." I am sure everything would be fine then....

veta, several months back you referred to some law that was repealed a couple decades ago that required news agencies to not add bias/spin. can you refresh my memory?

thats why the media is killing me. they have figured out the formula to gaining the most viewership and advertisement dollars, and it results in spinning things into conflict, avoiding some news, trumping up other news. meh.