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Jurgen and the MODerator system
nixx wrote
at 10:04 AM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
Let me begin by saying that I am NOT writing this as an insult to Jurgen or to any of the other MOD's.

What I am doing is questioning / discussing the current MOD system.

Without talking to Ryan personally, I can only guess at the reasoning behind having MODERATORS as actual players of the game, but Im sure they are (and not limited to) some of the following:

1. The MODS are in the games, know the game , and like the game.

2. The MODS will not be immediately recognized as a MODERATOR in every game, and as such, the MOD's will witness a lot of uncensored chat and game play.

3. The MODS are probably free to Ryan. Possibly compensated with some free memberships / and or a feeling of authority.

With that said, its obvious that Ryan is running a business. The KDice, GPokr, and Xsketch sites are successful web businesses that I have enjoyed for years, along with many other players. I am also sure that the inexpensive / friendly gaming environments that Ryan has created have brought him a lot of financial success, and I congratulate / aspire this as a fellow programmer.

I believe the current MOD system changes the games to an extent that jeopardizes the future success of these sites.

The reasoning for my frustration:

Jurgen recently accused me of being in violation of the game rules. The Justification for his accusations: Not accepting a verbal flag from Moulue during a members tournament.

I would like to go over the actual rules of the game for those of you who have not read them.

The rules of the game are simple:

1.Do not use pornographic Avatars. (My Avatar is a black square, and has been for several weeks, before that, it was the Mandelbrot set for a very long time.)

2. Do not harass people. (OK,well, this one is a little vague, what constitutes harassment? Honestly, I have, like a lot of others, in the past gotten angry in the chat box over the outcome of a game. Note though that my treatment of other players was never in question during this members tournament or any other ring game in the past.)

3. Do Not Use Hate Language or Avatars. ( See my responses to Rule 2 and 3...Furthermore, I am not a racist, and do not use racist language. The only Biased thing I do on this website is go easier on girls with cute pictures of themselves....Brighty is a perfect example.)

4. Game to Game favors are not allowed. ( I was accused of being in alliance with 2 players in a 9 player members tournament. MC and another player whose name I cant even remember. For the record, I do not know these players in real life, nor have I any arrangement with them for mutually beneficial game outcomes. Jurgen accuses me of this, but cannot ever prove this, because it is SIMPLY NOT TRUE).

5. Play only one account at a time. (I have several accounts Nix, Nixx, Nixxx, Nixxxx, etc. I have only ever played one of them at a time. If this is to be questioned, I rerfer Ryan to his own servers history records.)


So...with all of the above said, the following was posted on my review page by Jurgen after Moulue reported me minutes after the conclusion of the members tournament.

serious warning: can't call it pga with "MC"/zoid for sure but very fishy screw of molou at the very least. Game 1: you don't let him fight for 3rd for a made up reason. Game 2 before heads up: you don't let him fight again because you accept the weirdest "I won't cut you for 2nd" when there wasn't even a real cut on. Next fishy play will mean a ban. -avatar jurgen 7:43 PM, Saturday September 10, 2011 CDT


Notice that Jurgen was able to post this on my review page with the warning category listed as Avatar. I guess there is not a category for warnings regarding NOT ACCEPTING VERBAL FLAGS. I bet that is because NOT ACCEPTING VERBAL FLAGS IS NOT A VIOLATION OF THE RULES. I wonder why not accepting verbal flags is not a rule.. Probably because it is sometimes WISE TO DO SO, seeing as the the goal of KDICE IS TO WIN POINTS WITHIN THE RULES AND PARAMETERS OF THE GAME! Flags are in place to shorten games, not as a tool for players to think they are guaranteed safety, at the cost of other players expansion and game progress.

Let me go over how I handle verbal flags:

If a verbal flag hurts my game.I do not accept it.

If a verbal flag is neutral to my game.I sometimes accept it.

If a verbal flag helps my game. I accept it.

In conclusion, MODerators should not have the ability to arbitrarily assign negative warnings on players review page. I agree that pornographic, racist and otherwise inappropriate language and avatars should not be tolerated, however, I think that there is too much wiggle room for the MODerators. They are not there to analyze the way I win games. They are there to, based on facts, and never capriciously, assign warnings to players that are in clear violation of the actual rules of the game. I want this post to begin a serious discussion about authority and discretion given to the MODerators.

This POST has been EMAILED to RYAN as well.

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nixx wrote
at 7:31 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
Yah..Heres an observation...The insulting way the MODerators talk to the paying customers of KDice. I for one will never put another penny into this website and would reccomend anyone else insulted by a moderator of the site do the same.
Thraxle wrote
at 7:33 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
I didn't call you a douchebag pointwhore, therefore you haven't been insulted yet.
montecarlo wrote
at 7:51 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
lol thrax pwning this thread.
twinky wrote
at 8:31 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
Personally, I see where nixx is coming from. Maybe he was cheating, maybe he is innocent - who knows? But since it wasn't proven there is no need to have him "modded by the community," even if it was only a -avatar. Now his account is tainted by this "warning." Perhaps a verbal warning or a review would have been suffice. As one who also had my account wrongfully tainted, I understand his frustration.

When Sam banned me for his bullshit "shady OTF" reasons, I was pretty pissed off. Almost wrote a big long post like nixx did and an email to Ryan to go along with it. I wasn't even fortunate enough to get a warning! Not being able to play for 3 days set me back that month but the worst part was being permanently labeled a cheater over a game I wasn't cheating in. So now when people read my reviews, they will see "PGA" and assume I cheat to get all my points.

I think this is unfair. If a person is a cheater, it really isn't that hard to catch one of their slip ups. Perhaps a resolution would be to delete his "warning" - if that's even possible? Anyway, people will always deny that they cheat, but until you catch them I don't think it's cool going around tainting accounts unless palpable cheating was witnessed. Probably isn't easy modding with such vaguely written rules, so maybe it's time to make a better guideline on how mods should go about business. Though that's not likely to ever happen.
montecarlo wrote
at 8:34 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
look folks, in any test of truth, the test will give false positives sometimes and false negatives sometimes. go wikipedia what an ROC curve is. in kdice land, moderators are a much much more accurate ROC curve than no moderators at all, or just the skimpy RC-test that Ryan implemented, or just Ryan cruising around on his own, or even just letting the community massPGE cheaters on their own.

so whenever you get wrongfully banned, suck it up, it happens. you were the collateral damage that happened to be the false positive. just state that you disagree and continue to play your game. and be thankful for all the true cheaters that are being caught by the mods.
@Jurgenlikesdick wrote
at 8:39 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
So you're saying Monte, just because a few innocent people die each year on deathrow it doesn't mean the whole system is bad? Their lives are just sacrifices society has to make in order to use the "deterant" of capital punishment?
"MC" wrote
at 8:43 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
idunno who nix is lol
kdiceplaya! wrote
at 8:46 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
No system created to regulate morality can be perfect. Other systems can (ie physics). Way to compare KDice to capital punishment. Thats like comparing pop warner football to WW II.
Thraxle wrote
at 8:48 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
yeah, veta's logic on that was highly flawed.

I would say it's more like for every 50 criminals that get community service, 1 is innocent. Tough luck, now do your community service.

We're talking about a ban of an account in a community where alternate accounts can be made over and over and over again.
uglygolfball wrote
at 9:03 PM, Sunday September 11, 2011 EDT
> It also doesn't state that PGA is illegal in the rules....

> I guess we shouldn't ban for that either?

Finally you're coming to your senses Thrax! Of course PGA shouldn't be banned. PGA's are the best thing that can happen to kdice. They make make the game unpredictable, making it fun, yet they are completely fair - everyone can PGA.
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