proxy cheater, you can not use the czech argument. the argument about Czech is about a failed comunistic system that failed because it lost the economical war. It has little to do with socialised medicin. on most western countries with socialised medicine the physicans make quite alot of money. in norway they say that a doctor can make more than 150K/year if he choses to, my uncle makes 300K / year as a private practice doctor (which is the regular kind of doctor in norway).

many elective surgeries you can get from private practices. that way you can chose to pay if the waitinglists feels like a hassle. and you will usually get it in a timely mannor.

"Do you really think American medical research companies are going to invest as they have in the past, when they now have no market except what they can convince the government to pay? "

you do know they make bucketloads of money on the european marked, right?

if they charge, lets say $1000 for a medicine, then if I have a doctors prescription, I will pay like $30, and the government will pay $970. they actually compete for the marketshares just as in usa, except that the people buying the medicine are less price sensitive, since the government pays.

Mrk; the average doctors salary in Sweden is 28k. In the USA; it is over 120k.

28k is almost poverty level; especially in NYC. You can get a higher paying job in business administration.

Just wanted to illustrate the point that the CRepublic example is also true in modern socialist states like Sweden.

Btw; Good stuff proxycheater; I completely and wholeheartedly agree.

Paul Krugman getting a dose of reality in Canada.

http://reason.tv/roughcut/show/paul-krugman-gets-owned-on-hea

Btw; Mrk; I know you enjoyed the Milton Friedman discussions; well here is a great one about socialized medicine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPADFNKDhGM&feature=related

Additional news on Europe's impending defaults:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43988195

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/08/02/euro-zone-debt-woes-get-messier/

New Bank runs in Greece:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/01/greece-panic-change

Italy and Spain on the brink:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Italy-under-fire-in-widening-rb-3187145634.html?x=0&.v=12

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/f07eab84-bcee-11e0-bdb1-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1TpbyQJDU

Greek exodus of skilled labor:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-the-create-escape-2330675.html

BTW this is all news from today.

"Mrk; the average doctors salary in Sweden is 28k."


that is just plainly wrong.

according to their statistics for 2002, the average salery was 31000 SEK / month, add them together and get about 58K usd, then adjust for inflation and get about 70k.

this statistic is for general practitioners, with te average salery of 70k, for specialists, the salery was 48000 SEK/month, which becomes 89792 USD/ year, adjust for inflation gets you about 110 k a year.


in norway they are in general about 30%-50% higher
what kind of rightwing propaganda did you believe this time? do I really have to check your stats EVERY time you say something?

I am done discussing with you if you cannot stay away from lying.

^^^^ disregard that last part, I regret posting it


I do not care for false stats, so I got mine from the swedish stats burau

Wow a little bit angry about a dated statistic. I looked it up again; and you are right; it is 77k; but I was also wrong on the USA average; now it is 230k.

So the comparison is actually worse then I stated earlier. Sorry for dated statistics; but I was trying to communicate the difference in payment.

I'd appreciate it; if you could refrain from calling me a liar. I have no intention of lying but I do make mistakes from time to time.

Mrk; I'm trying to have a discussion about a real issue. If you believe that all people that disagree with you are right wing fanatics and liars; then you not someone I'm willing to converse with. Let me know how I should proceed. My opinions are very much in line with Milton Friedman; Hayek; Mises; and other widely acclaimed economists. If you are unable to accept my arguments as anything else then right wing propaganda; then I call into question your knowledge of this topic; seeing as you a missing a whole 100 years of theory and discussion amongst experts.

With that being said; please reply to the new statistics that confirm that doctors from socialized health care systems make much less then privatized systems. And why you think this doesn't have the effect of the best doctors leaving those socialized systems.