dead, i think that stance is too extreme. of course, the usa and north korea shouldnt be treated as equals in most areas. and i dont think the UN is doing that outside of non-power positions, like chairmanship of an outdated conference, where the chairmanship is honorary anyways.

to some extent, you must allow these country leaders to save face, or else youll burn your bridge to their people, whom you want to help.

its a quite complex situation imo.

we all want the north korean populace to not be in constant starvation. but the govt is so ruthless that they wont allow a lot of help to come in, for fear that the people will realize that, well, that the govt needs help to support its people. we can all agree the north korean govt is fucked up beyond all recognition. but how can you get the govt out of power without them destroying their populace (and some countries around them)?

so you take the good with the bad. if you can throw $1M at north korea and let them rule over pointless positions on the UN, its worth it if $10,000 of that money gets through to their people who for the first time, get basic medical attention with the money. yes, you lose 99% of your donation to line the corrupt govt.

its quite a conundrum.

(sorry to go off on a NK tangent there)

But Monte; I think you made my point for me. The folly of the whole situation is evident in your recollection of it.

We are essentially paying dictators to be nicer to their people. Then we wonder why; they threaten us ever so much more. Because it works!

I think its not the UN that is broken, but the countries in them.

a friend of mine told me that his professor had said that UN is all about using big words while doing nothing, but at least it keeps people talking to each other in a way that will make treatier easier to make, and will make international standars easier to make. the human right standard is not a tool we use to force change in a nation, it is a tool the opposition in that nation use to rally the people and change the system themselves.

Yes but the UN is also a tool for dictators to claim acceptance in the international community. Think of the morale of a citizens stuck in that nightmare; when they see the perpetrator of their enslavement shaking hands on the world stage. They must feel completely alone and stuck in that situation.

Maybe if we didn't give these nations money and approval; they wouldn't be able to hold their population one iota above poverty with an iron grip. If North Korea; can't keep its army fed they will revolt.

Monte: I hear your point about the terrible things that be fall the families if they didn't get our 1% funds on 99% stolen. But take a lesson from Band-Aids. Sometimes it's better to get the thing over with; so you can move on and be free.

How would you rather live? 40 years in complete filth under the boot of a brutal dictator just to die undignified. Or maybe die in a revolt against said dictator; fighting for something better.

It isn't our place to choose for them.

International aid corrupts since it is free and not earned. The world would be a better place if we stopped giving so much international aid, the UN being one of the chief perpetrators of spreading misery with international aid.

I very much agree Sam.

just my 2 sense of stupidness worth:
maybe it is some political plan (on of those they never tell us about) too help subside the communism? very long shot, but never know...
they might be trying to prevent a WMD from coming over or what not.

now call me ignorant, retarded, brainless, stupid, idiotic. but it's just a thought

I'm fairly certain that lots of good also comes from international aid, especially of the humanitarian variety...

i agree with sam also ^^

i forget, is it the UN that administers sanctions (no imports/exports) when countries cross the line with nuclear testing, etc?