i think you're the one who needs to grow up.
i don't need to be spoon fed how to play fair. i already play fair.
i need to be spoon fed as to what _ryan_ thinks is fair because obviously, a lot of people don't seem to get it, and well, the way you currently enforce your idea of fairness, doesn't seem very fair to me.

btw, does it look to you like i'm competing for a top spot? what kind of stupid veiled threat was that, anyway?
let me turn it around for ya. if you don't like what i have to say, or can't stand people questioning what you say (also a cultural thing i guess), do feel free to cancel my membership and revoke my privs.

test

Ryan, ive heard this idea suggested before... perhaps instead of relying on a handful of moderators to spy out who are guilty of immoral unfair playing... how about create an ebay-like system where every player can rate every other player's integrity level? you are only allowed to rate someone else during a brief window after a game you just completed with them, so it would entirely be based on experience playing with the other player. plus, this way there couldnt be any rnd-like roving alt army who would vote -100 with 100 alts on someone just for fun.

then when you sit in a game, you can look around the table and see a negative/positive rating score, and know what to expect from them.

this would seem to take a lot of responsibility off of you from being the sole enforcer of fairness. i think as a whole, the mob usually correctly identifies unfair play.

Rigor, if you don't care about being competing for a top spot go play the lower tables and stop worrying about what's fair.

Of course the line of fairness is blurry. But the line is not the issue here. There is a massive area of unfair play, far away from any blurry line, and its clear as day. This is what we're talking about. You're confusing the argument by focusing on the definition of a line - there is none and its foolish to define one. We're talking about blatant unfair play that goes largely unchallenged currently.

I would love that - all those players that post how much I suck at life after I organize a good counter truce would give me many -100s haha

trying to fix this would be like pissing in an ocean of piss

YES pga is bad, YES its unfair, YES it cheapens the game, but theres not much that could happen to change it except for excessive use of the banhammer

Well after reading this whole post I would like to chime in and say a few things.

To everyone, I have done my part in promoting a cultural change in kdice. I retired. I would say that most of what is being addressed here today can be attested to several months in the past where gameplay got out of hand, and consequently so did behavior.

Ryan,

For the most part I would say that you are correct in saying that the game has changed a lot since the many months of PGA/team play. You can see that newer players are becoming successful and have learned to play the game on the board, and in the chat box in order to win. I would say that you should be proud of the new players that you have attracted to kdice, they seem to have honor and integrity, and may not reward these "elitist" players of the past.

Leekstep and Montecarlo,

Are you kidding me? You two are literally the epitome of cheating in kdice. What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. All kidding aside.

Mods will not make the game better. I think the changes that Ryan has made have improved on the general gameplay that drives the game away from players rewarding players based on recognition rather than gameplay. Although, you can never take the social aspect out of the game, and the Prisoner's Dilemma, will always be apart of kdice.

You have to want to change, you can't just beg for it in the forums.

ChristianSoldier, that feature is planned. lets forget about it until then.

fcuku, thats a defeatist and lazy approach (ie the world is crap anyway I can't do anything to change it)

Feedback system for the win.

Ryan I know you want "us" to police ourselves but we need some sort of visible feedback rating next to our names. Having a feedback box pop up after you are eliminated from a game or tournament with a list of the players you played against and allowing you to rate them on a scale of -5 to +5. Then displaying some sort of aggregate rating next to their names during games would inspire people to play fair and defend their fair play to encourage positive ratings from their competition.

Rewards are great incentives for good behaviour and most players here were be more proud in having a top rating over having the most points. This is especially true at the top where most of "us" play this game because it is fun but also social and we can banter and bullshit with our e-friends well wasting time at work/school/etc...

So as the first casualty of the revolution in the kEnlightenment, I figured I might toss a few things out. I can understand where Ry is coming from with the fact that it's a culture change, and not wanting to hard code solutions into it, and not feeling that it should be necessary. For the most part we are all adults and capable of acting like them. I was expecting the ban because even when we had the discussion with Ryan on it a few days ago I couldn't completely match my definition up with his. I'm sure it will take me a few tries to get things right, but hey even I am learning.

On to a few of the ideas mentioned, and while I do agree that culture needs to change, I think along with the culture change, it would be a great time to implement the idea that was up a while ago, but I can't seem to find. It goes a little like this. With some modification, you basically do things like montes ebay thing, where people have positive or negative flags so to speak, and after they get so many they get a temporary punishment, and when they come back they have half the flags they did, and if the behavior keeps up they will have a worse punishment. This goes on until a permaban. I'll do some digging and find the idea and link to it, as it really was a good idea. Table replays are also effective as well.

Like I said though, I understand that the culture changing is the first step, and that it's a shame that people even need to step in in the first place.

Cheers

Cody