Forum
Who are Player J's helpers? ---- a test of the TASM
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skrumgaer wrote
at 12:23 PM, Monday October 8, 2007 EDT
I have not used the Test Against Selected Modulus (TASM) in a while, but a situation has arisen where it may be useful.
A certain player (let us call him Player J) is in the top 25 but has no wins. Certainly a typo. But that is not the case. Player J is striving to attain first place without any wins. Now this is where the TASM comes in. The TASM (Test Against Selected Modulus) is designed to spot pga’s of a particular player. Who is helping Player J attain his goal? The TASM works as follows. Player J has a percentage profile of 00-30-10-09-13-14-20. If there are only six other players with whom Player J has played games, their collective percentage profile would have to be the modulus of Player J’s, or 100-70-90-91-87-86-80. Divided equally among the six players, each J-helper would have a percentage profile of 16-12-15-15-15-14-13. The TASM compares a player against this profile (rather than the uniform distribution profile used by the TAPL). The smaller the TASM, the greater the possibility that the player is a pga of Player J. The TASM is only an approximation. First, the number of helpers of player J may be less or more than six. Second, some helpers may help more than others. Third, many players have played more games than Player J and obviously cannot have helped Player J in all of them. Here is a list of the top 25 players and their TASM’s. The number of games per player have been normalized to match that of Player J. The smaller the TASM, the more likely a pga. It will be noted that Player J himself has a very large TASM. That is because he can’t be a pga of himself! 12 amenphis 2486◆ 215 15% 17% 14% 15% 11% 15% 10% ∫ 659 ∫ 23 Obi-Wan Kenewbie 1695◆ 215 22% 11% 9% 13% 15% 13% 14% ∫ 744 ∫ 2 Vohaul 3610◆ 215 22% 16% 11% 16% 10% 15% 6% ∫ 1617 ∫ 7 lesplaydices 2679◆ 215 19% 17% 14% 12% 10% 6% 19% ∫ 1662 ∫ 4 Linch 3108◆ 215 22% 17% 16% 10% 14% 11% 6% ∫ 1664 ∫ 14 MadHat_Sam 2136◆ 215 21% 16% 8% 9% 10% 15% 18% ∫ 1678 ∫ 25 sticks&stones 1547◆ 215 24% 9% 12% 22% 12% 9% 10% ∫ 1781 ∫ 1 Zosod 4049◆ 215 23% 19% 11% 14% 13% 9% 8% ∫ 1797 ∫ 17 bcmatteagles 2041◆ 215 24% 15% 19% 16% 8% 8% 8% ∫ 2096 ∫ 11 fish28 2563◆ 215 15% 23% 16% 8% 14% 12% 10% ∫ 2196 ∫ 16 Hart 2084◆ 215 22% 18% 14% 13% 18% 9% 3% ∫ 2436 ∫ 9 wishbone 2656◆ 215 24% 18% 16% 9% 16% 12% 4% ∫ 2487 ∫ 13 se�kin 2217◆ 215 18% 20% 12% 6% 18% 6% 18% ∫ 2624 ∫ 19 Phoenix37 2011◆ 215 30% 12% 11% 9% 9% 10% 15% ∫ 2834 ∫ 5 SodaPop 2948◆ 215 28% 12% 19% 13% 12% 4% 9% ∫ 2912 ∫ 15 uukrul 2115◆ 215 26% 19% 19% 9% 12% 9% 3% ∫ 3641 ∫ 24 DiceLord 1551◆ 215 24% 22% 14% 15% 10% 10% 2% ∫ 3738 ∫ 18 Vermont 2031◆ 215 27% 19% 19% 9% 6% 8% 8% ∫ 3762 ∫ 6 kissygirl 2794◆ 215 20% 25% 17% 14% 8% 7% 7% ∫ 3766 ∫ 21 Grisu 1916◆ 215 23% 25% 16% 5% 8% 8% 11% ∫ 4452 ∫ |
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Beals wrote
at 2:06 AM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT Player J sounds like the worst type of player to me. More worried about getting points than winning first place.
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JKD wrote
at 2:15 AM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT *bows to Player J's brilliance*
Wasn't Player J the one who made a huge thread and stated that first place gets too many points? |
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montecarlo wrote
at 7:16 AM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT If Player J is brilliant, then that makes Stoudemire an unrecognized genius. Sorry Player J, if you are emulating Stoudemire, you only deserve utter banishment.
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Big Jumblies wrote
at 8:24 AM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT Please remind everyone what Stoudemire's experiment was. I don't think Player J was around when Stoudemire played.
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azala wrote
at 12:23 PM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT skrumgaer:
"Under the current flag rules, you don't have to call for second" True - I never said that wasn't the case. Calling for second, though, invariably produces better results, so it's more likely Player J did that (or will do that, after reading this post). "The equal division of the 100-70-etc. is under the laws of probability. " Explain to me how this assumption makes any sense given the circumstances. I'm an actuary - feel free to hit me with arguments based on advanced statistics. |
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skrumgaer wrote
at 2:09 PM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT azala:
I'm glad we both agree that what I said was true. In regard to the laws of probability, as used by actuarians, when 215 games are played, and there is no division of labor among player J's helpers, there is no reason to expect any one of J's helpers to have a profile different from any other of J's helpers. Q.E.D. |
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rnd wrote
at 2:45 PM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT why is there an assumption that player J has helpers? he has the lowest first % in the top 25!
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JKD wrote
at 4:51 PM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT It would be interesting if everyone flagged early just to make Player J get 1st.
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azala wrote
at 5:43 PM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT "there is no reason to expect any one of J's helpers to have a profile different from any other of J's helpers"
Like I said, in the 1-helper case, regardless of how they're distributed they should all do better than 16-12-15-15-15-14-13. The same principle is true as long as someone in the table is not in on the PGA. Those players not in on the PGA will rarely be allowed by the PGA to have significant influence on the game - making 16-12-15-15-15-14-13 unreasonably high. To assume that the expected value of profiles of PGA and non-PGA players are the same is ridiculous. In the remaining case - when all the players left on the table are PGA toward J getting second place - from a behavioral standpoint all bets are off. Nobody really knows how they'll play, for example whether it's calculated to get some other player a lot of 1sts or 7ths or whatever (in which case, high TASM), whether it's sitting down with the intent of flagging immediately (how does that explain the low end of 00-30-10-09-13-14-20?), or whether they're playing a bunch of seemingly honest games with the condition that if J is in a two player match, he flags. You can say, technically, that the expected value for each player is 1/6 of the total - I didn't say you're wrong about that fact - but that doesn't mean you can derive reasonable conclusions from your test. The problem is that the list of possible motives simply generates too much variance from the expected profiles of the 6 other players. That's why I say the value of the test is diluted by your assumption - the correlation between your calculated expected PGA'ers and the actual is uselessly low due to lack of information. About the PGA's - do we know what their secondary goals are? Do we know how they play amongst themselves? Making good progress on either of these questions is infinitely more beneficial to solving the problem than working with an assumption of perfect PGA-player equality. On the other hand, it seems to me that you might be doing this test just for statistical fun, instead of deriving idiotic Leekstep-like conclusions from |
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azala wrote
at 5:44 PM, Tuesday October 9, 2007 EDT (cont.)
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