Forum


How to test for pga's from players' profiles
skrumgaer wrote
at 1:49 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
In the book _Freakonomics_ by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner, the authors showed that sumo wrestlers who threw matches could be detected from their stats. With this idea in mind, I developed a way of testing—at least a negative test—whether some kdice players are pga’s of others. Unlike the individual observation method that I described last month, this method relies on the players’ percentage profiles provided by Ryan.

Let us consider a particular player—let us call him R—whom we want to find pre-game associates of. A pre-game associate is one who tends to play games with R often, and can be a pre-game ally, pre-game enemy, pre-game secret admirer, or pre-game old time friend.

Let us say that R has played eight games, and his number of finishes, from first to seventh, is 2-3-2-0-0-0-1. Now if R has six pre-game associates who played those same eight games, their collective finishes would be 6-5-6-8-8-8-7, the 8-modulus of R’s finishes. Dividing by the number of players and games, the percentage profiles of the six pga’s would average out to 12%-10%-12%-16%-16%-16%-14%. So, to spot the 6 pga’s we would look for 6 players whose profiles most closely match 10%-12%-16%-16%-16%-14%.

If it were only so easy.

The profile developed above is under the assumption that the 6 pga’s played only 8 games, all of which were with player R. Obviously, anyone who has played more than 8 games will have played some of them without player R, and for those other games we may assume that they play their normal game. So the profile of any player will be the weighted average of the number of games played with R and the number of games played without R.

To measure the likelihood of a pga of a particular player, I have developed a new test called the Test Against Selected Modulus, or TASM. A player’s TASM against a particular other player is the chi-square goodness of fit test against the weighted average of the player’s ordinary game and the other player’s modulus.

So how do we determine a player’s ordinary game? That is the tricky part. To put it another way, impossible. The second best thing is use the game of ordinary players. For the TASM, the best indicator of the game of ordinary players in the top 25, who are the subject of study, would be the average profile of the top-25er’s. There will be some bias in the average profile, since suspected pga’s profiles contribute to it, but I can think of no better number to use.

For the 24 players in the study, player R excluded, the average percentage profile was 17%-15%-15%-15%-11%-12%-10%. For each player, the TASM is the chi-square fit of the weighted average of player R’s modulus, 10%-12%-16%-16%-16%-14%, and the ordinary game, 17%-15%-15%-15%-11%-12%-10%.

The following table shows the top 25 players in the study, their percentage profiles, and their TASM’s. The TASM is a two-tailed test. A very large TASM indicates that the particular player is not a pga of player R. A very small TASM (but I don’t know how small it would have to be) suggests that a player might be a pga of player R, but it cannot be used as a positive test since it is possible for a player never to have played player R and have a small TASM. So the TASM should be used more as an elimination test than an identification test. The players are arranged in order of increasing TASM.

Remember, the closer you are to the bottom of the list, the less likely you are a pga of Player R.

petomni -27 2152 (96th) 62 17% 16% 17% 12% 12% 9% 12% 228
MCiGGzy -22 2113 (154th) 120 12% 15% 17% 13% 13% 15% 13% 344
R.A.T.M. 68 2133 (123rd) 79 10% 15% 17% 17% 16% 11% 11% 415
uukrul 0 2174 (63rd) 82 14% 12% 17% 12% 12% 19% 12% 450
monkeymagic -41 2182 (54th) 76 14% 21% 11% 18% 11% 11% 10% 472
Tom-ster 0 2210 (26th) 54 18% 22% 14% 18% 11% 9% 5% 773
borsato 0 2200 (34th) 35 20% 14% 14% 8% 17% 20% 5% 786
Onimushaport -35 2152 (96th) 73 15% 10% 13% 13% 10% 15% 20% 875
[ju] 0 2243 (8th) 44 18% 18% 11% 18% 20% 6% 6% 923
SodaPop 64 2188 (47th) 100 15% 13% 19% 9% 17% 11% 16% 938
super strut 0 2192 (42nd) 38 15% 10% 15% 28% 10% 13% 5% 956
dakerzzz -20 2165 (79th) 47 19% 8% 12% 10% 14% 12% 21% 970
Phoenix37 -16 2163 (80th) 98 10% 22% 11% 11% 15% 16% 13% 1087
Vermont 0 2271 (5th) 14 21% 14% 14% 28% 0% 14% 7% 1199
sajin 0 2206 (30th) 21 14% 9% 28% 14% 19% 9% 4% 1216
RaccoonTail 0 2186 (49th) 44 22% 11% 25% 6% 9% 13% 11% 1218
Orlafede 22 2190 (44th) 39 25% 12% 5% 7% 12% 17% 17% 1275
Guit 0 2113 (154th) 47 14% 12% 12% 29% 4% 12% 12% 1292
leekstep -56 2237 (10th) 72 16% 26% 18% 6% 5% 12% 13% 1810
dasfury 0 2190 (44th) 14 14% 28% 0% 7% 21% 21% 7% 1871
Sinth 31 2253 (6th) 37 27% 24% 5% 18% 10% 5% 8% 1885
bcmatteagles -35 2234 (12th) 9 11% 22% 33% 11% 0% 22% 0% 2476
riser2 0 2289 (2nd) 20 35% 10% 15% 25% 10% 0% 5% 2538
Peter North 44 2275 (4th) 21 38% 19% 9% 9% 9% 0% 14% 2917
skrumgaer 0 1656th (3584th) 37 10% 8% 21% 18% 35% 2% 2% 3895
riser 0 2344 (1st) 8 25% 37% 25% 0% 0% 0% 12% 4224


« First ‹ Previous Replies 11 - 20 of 29 Next › Last »
CoMik wrote
at 3:33 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
skrum i have a legit question.. doesn't this only work with the assumption that r's games are played with 6 pga's, most pga's are 2 or 3 people, and since the way they are playing weights the averages towards 1st 2nd 3rd or 4th (assuming a nondestructive, mutually beneficial pga) we cannot assume that they would receive the modulus of r's finishes. So if it is not an entire game full of pga's, what then?

or i could be totally wrong, who knows?
bcmatteagles wrote
at 3:53 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
hmm considering riser has played 8 games, you'll have a really tough time trying to find who he's played with and to have any meaningful stats....
skrumgaer wrote
at 4:02 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
Comik:

Suppose there are only 3 pga's, but they play all 8 games. Assume the other players are random. The 3 pga's will come closer to the modulus than the players who rotate in and out.

skrumgaer wrote
at 4:09 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
Condoleeza:

With R having played only 8 games, a maximum of 48 players could have been in a game with him so far. If the number was in fact 48, none of them could be expected to have a profile that matches the modulus of R. On the other hand, if there are only 6 players who have been in a game with R, their profiles will have a good match with the modulus of R's and the average of their profiles will have an _exact_ match with R's (TASM = 0). As R plays more games, the closer the profile of each gpa will approach the modulus of R.
montecarlo wrote
at 4:17 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
just for kicks, see if almog bitton (or whatever his name is) correlates with riser?

just for kicks.
super strut wrote
at 5:41 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
Dear skrum´ - perhaps you suppose to much?!?
JDVegas wrote
at 6:02 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
PGA's ARE part of the game.
integral wrote
at 6:15 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
I also think it's funny that bc is at the bottom of the list.

and people say they pga, that's funny.
skrumgaer wrote
at 6:34 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
int:

I'm glad you finished reading the post. We are looking for pga's with riser in particular and in July in particular. It could be that bc, having played only 9 games, could have pga'd with riser in any of or all of his 8 games. Yate's Correction is applicable to the TASM as well as the TAPL, but I didn't do it for this post since this is just a demonstration. With Yate's Correction, bc's TASM goes from 2476 to 1215. I haven't read anywhere that bc has confessed to being a pga with riser in July.
OldElvis wrote
at 7:13 PM, Friday July 6, 2007 EDT
could you create some profiles and PGA them to confirm your suspicion? What about people who have worked well in games together that are more the "Friends" that do not attack each other? Jschelz does not go out of his way to attack meas, whenever I sit down at a table to play with him, I lose miserably. it's just bad luck.
KDice - Multiplayer Dice War
KDice is a multiplayer strategy online game played in monthly competitions. It's like Risk. The goal is to win every territory on the map.
CREATED BY RYAN © 2006 - 2026
GAMES
G GPokr
Texas Holdem Poker
K KDice
Online Strategy
X XSketch
Online Pictionary