1) yes i would vote for an atheist, if i feel they are the best option. i have voted for "christians" in the past who dont honestly look like their faith is genuine at all, but they are just claiming the religion so that they can be elected. same difference to me.

2) as far as holy spirit shit goes, i would cite several miracles that i have heard second-hand from back in my days as a missionary in taiwan. we would have a yearly conference for all the regional missionaries, and the ones who worked in more third-world type countries had some simply sickening stories, whether they had to do with good shit (miraculous healings) or bad shit (crazy deaths). sure, you can always call them coincidences i guess.

when i was in training, there was a seminar about western vs nonwestern conception of spiritual shit. the dude went up to the board and wrote the following:

GOD

ANGELS/DEMONS

PEOPLE

then he drew one big circle around god and angels/demons, and said, this is how western civilization views spiritual shit (he didnt say 'shit', duh). its us people, and then all that batshit crazy spiritual junk.

then he erased the big circle, and redrew it around angels/demons and people, and said, this is how nonwestern civilization views it. it was a neat a-ha moment.

we as the western civ tend to treat ourselves as more enlightened, and jump to the conclusion that our experience leads us to believe that our conception is correct, while the nonwestern is wrong because... well... im sure yall know all the reasons.

but then the rest of the seminar were stories from current/past missionaries about all the shit theyve seen when they are living in nonwestern countries, and they were mindblowing stories. and these were from people who were thoroughly western-minded when they went into the mission field, not expecting to see/experience the craziness that they did. lots of missionaries quit when they see the shit, cus it shakes them up so bad.

i realize im a little different from most ppl in this thread, because i dont really fact-check everything, and hold it all up to the blinding truth of logic (or wikipedia, i guess). i like to listen to stories, and judge the story based on how trustworthy i find the storyteller. meh.

btw, this is awesome. Maybe I will learn some new tricks; lose some bad ones. Haha!

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/semicolon

btw, i agree that its screwy to ask for proof that God doesnt exist.

couple naive quick answers why i believe he does exist: cell differentiation and the concept of entropy.

DC, I agree that it's impossible to prove something like God doesn't exist. The point I was making is that believers don't require tangible proof (sight/sound/touch) to believe God exists. So those believers should turn the tables and ask a non-believer to disprove something without tangible evidence. It's a conundrum.

My reason for not believing in God isn't that I can't see him, or touch him. My problem with religion is:

A) All religions were written/taught/created by humans.

B) Religions evolved over time not because they learn new things about that religion, but because those religions MUST evolve in order to survive. This means that they weren't right to begin with, aren't right now, and won't be right in the future.

C) Religions have died over the centuries. It simply depends on who wins the war or whether anyone is subscribing to that belief system anymore.

D) Religion is just another dividing force on our planet. More people have died in the name of God than for any other reason. Our planet would be far more peaceful and friendly without religion and it's divisions it creates.

E) Any of the religions that contain books with stories/rules/guidelines/etc. are amazingly contradictory with themselves. They flip-flop more than a Republican candidate.

F) The God of the Christians, in my opinion, is portrayed as a vengeful, vain, prejudice motherfucker. I'd rather rot in Hell than serve such a prick for eternity in Heaven.

That sums up my issues with religion.


By the way, my Dad is Baptist, my mom is Catholic, my wife is Catholic, I was baptized Catholic, and we were married in a Catholic church (which required me to do some lying in our interview with the priest).

I'll be happy to expand section F if anyone wants me to elaborate.

sure there were some wars that were religion-based, but i think many more deaths/wars were caused by greed for power/wealth.

and i would say if youre going to hold anything against the god portrayed in the bible, it would be that he set the bar way too high for people. basically, he demands perfection.

absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

Greed, power and wealth.

Wow, sounds like the Roman Catholic Church.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of existence either das.