Forum
Game to game favours
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killamangiro wrote
at 11:16 AM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT
I'll preface this by saying that considering the amount of time I've sunk into my k-addiction I'm not very good at diplomacy which is rightly 9/10ths of the strategy on high tables. I'd in all likelyhood be a mediocre player even if the rules were all rigidly enforced.
I also accept that regular players on 2ks and 5ks will inevitably truce each other more than noobs, and this will be a good strategy for them in any given game for obvious reasons. Having said that, somewhere between a third and half of the times I stray onto 2ks to donate some of my points I see blatant moves that will ONLY benefit a player in future games, i.e. game to game favours. Someone who's going to finish last whatever happens releases their mate's 8 stack for example. This is pretty depressing as it slants the game even further away from the noob who already doesn't have the reputation or chat skills of the regulars. So I guess I'm asking whether it's worth reporting it when this happens or if it's just a fact of life on kdice Cheers |
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jurgen wrote
at 11:43 AM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT "Someone who's going to finish last whatever happens releases their mate's 8 stack for example" -->that's an ingame "favour"
if you mean that that small person would be counting on the favoured big player to receive a similar help in case roles were reversed, yeah that's game to game favours so in conclusion, if the same people help each other stretching over multiple games, yeah that's pga and that's not allowed. you would have to have detailed info about more than one game then to report your case. Ideally you would have to show me recorded games so I can verify somehow that players A and B give each other clear favours during different games. |
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killamangiro wrote
at 12:08 PM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT Ah, I should have been clearer. The two players hadn't worked together that game but were clearly friends/knew each other pretty well. The assumption is that if the roles were reversed in a later game player B would help player A in a similar way, but I have no proof of this happening and I'm not really interested in stalking them to find out.
From what I've seen this kind of thing only really happens against those who aren't regulars on the higher tables, whether that's because they're less likely to report it or less able to retaliate in later games I don't know. I'd be interested to hear from experienced players whether they think there's a culture of regulars helping each other out against noobs even if it won't benefit them in that particular game. It certainly looks like it from my end. |
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""ENGLAND"" wrote
at 12:11 PM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT Funny Jurgen :) you can sit at a 2k and watch it happen every game ""detailed info"" strange thing to say when it happens every game...silent truces...to let me think o yes the people they play with all the time ""there mates"" but the skill level meant because they didn't take Blues one with there eight it was a silent truce we minor mortals don't pick up on. Not moaning though that's the way it is higher up; its the game it seems. The advice given by just about everyone is make friends that way you will have a batter chance on the higher tables, that would mean playing with your friend's at the same table which inevitably would lead to a PGA
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jurgen wrote
at 12:17 PM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT there is an old trusted friend mentality (OTF) amongst most regulars
but to me that stops at a bigger chance of (sometimes silently) trucing someone you know plays well compared to trucing someone you don't know. Also, "regulars" as you call them will read the board better and know that "if they move east, neighbouring regular X will recognize this as a smart move and not eat his weak tail because now he knows he can safely focus on someone else because clearly he isn't pickign a fight with him". If someone unknown moved away from you, you have no idea if it was just a bad move or if it was a signal to avoid each other. if friends start "helping" someones first by suiciding into a noob before dieing, i think that already smells more like favours or even pga in some cases |
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""ENGLAND"" wrote
at 12:30 PM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT Helping a friend rather than a stranger i would say is a form of PGA; an acceptable one...questionable but maybe, if you need to suicide an isle choosing somebody you are not regularly playing against would save them returning the favor in later games...but this could still be questionable if it happens every time, if it does then that's most certainly a PGA, question is does it? sitting at the 2k should tell you the answer...
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deadcode wrote
at 12:39 PM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT I think we should form a commission to make sure that all kdice regulars equally help those of who are need and not just those who are well off.
We can call it Affirmative k-action. It's been too long that we have allowed the blatant in-equality and we as citizens of the world are better then that. It is time to stand together and strike a victory for social justice and equality. This is why I am running for nomination to the progressive party. lol |
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killamangiro wrote
at 12:48 PM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT OTF trucing is clearly more of a grey area in the rules, and although I sympathise with what England's saying the judgement seems to be that it's more or less ok, and I can live with that. It's not what I wanted to discuss in this thread.
Other avenues of discussion I tried to ward off in my opening post were: 1) a back and forth with the players I describe in the example, as any single incident can be defended and because I'm more interested in whether it's widespread than isolated cases, and 2) "you're just a terrible player anyway" as this is plainly the case but mostly irrelevant :D As you acknowledge jurgen what I described is different from OTF trucing because it only benefits the players doing it in later games. You also said you don't think this line is crossed on a regular basis- fair enough, I disagree obviously. Would be interesting to see if this is the consensus amongst top players |
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""ENGLAND"" wrote
at 12:48 PM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT Random tables be better; but hey if you want to get together make an institution go for it. If you wish to play with your friends and give each other points to advance then it should not be allowed (But people don't do this just an assumption of mine), playing with your friends as a social table i'm all for :)(note the sarcastic smile)make it for no points though, or pink medals.
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TheBetterYodel wrote
at 1:03 PM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT OTF = PGA really
It's just a made up word by thraxle and other mods to hide the fact that they don't ban their friends who PGA. |
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KDP wrote
at 1:07 PM, Sunday July 17, 2011 EDT Killamangiro, you are correct, it happens all the time. It is part of the game. I didn't mind it even when I was a noob. Just realize that there is a lot of metagame involved. You earn your way into the higher tables. Once you put in your time and make friends, then those things no longer happen to you. It is like in a new job, you don't just show up for a month and get promoted...instead you work hard for a while until you are recognized, and then you move up.
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