are you really that stupid Raven, its not a ban...just goes to show your intelligence level and committment to addidng to a great socially interactive game.

this actually brings up an interesting topic of conversation

either the mods acknowledge the imperfection of RC, and therefore do not consider it PGA (and ban)

OR..

they do consider RC a valid PGA measure, however only ban players for PGAing when they see it happen

either way, system seems flawed. either RC's should be lifted (especially since they aren't resetting at end of month), or players that receive an RC should get the same ban as a player caught PGAing by the mods.

now that i think of it, there is a third possibility. just because you get RC with someone doesn't mean you necessarily are cheating, maybe it just means that as a combo you pwn too often. however this is not fair, because what if two players have similar schedules and more skill than everyone else? i dunno where i'm going here, i've been up all night (literally) k-dicing and writing a paper. but basically the conclusion is that kdice definitely needs some changes to take place for the betterment of us all ( is betterment a word? like peppermint, but its the bettermint ;P)

Piece, Luv & K-Dice Luckiness....snowie xoxo

I also played some games recently with both of them and both played fair without pga or anything like that. Hope the godfather gonna read this and let you two play again.

Played few games with phuze and Melphis - no PGA and other shit ...

a) Calling Ryan stupid will ruin your luck. You know I had to say that. My permanent calling him names perfectly explains my awesome rolling...

b) Even if you don't pga or anything (I have no reason to not trust you on that) it is normal to take higher risks on people noticing intentions in moves if you play them more often. So if you have many games with the same person, there will be some sort of band that will affect your game - not in a dramatic way of ignoring flags and so on, but sure a little. This happens to all of us, it is part of the social aspect. Though I don't know the measure that you have to fulfull to be refused sitting with somebody, it is ok to have a limit there. A 30-day-break might be an idea, but there should be of course an automatic end if there is an automatic start.

c) You could discuss if that helps at all, because after 30 days, 2 months, 1/2 year I will still know that player... Cleo hasn't been around for long and still I'd recall her to give an example. Amonida I haven't played a while but we had several games... You don't forget. A permanent no-sit-penalty would ruin the social aspects. If I really wanted to cheat, I'd have 2 or 3 accounts (no problem, e-mail-adresses are build quickly). So maybe using the frequent sitting as an indication for mods to take a closer look might be an idea. On the other hand - mods are not payed I guess, don't demand too much time.

Just my 0,02 Euro

yea phuze is right... kdice mods ,ryan should do something with that....

My thoughts...

A) I have no idea how the RC is calculated.

B) Mods cannot see who is RC'd with who, so the only way we'd find out is if the two RC'd players actually told us they were RC'd. I likely wouldn't ban anyone on grounds of the RC anyways.

C) I agree with the snow leopard, there could be many reasons you two were RC'd. I noticed you played a lot of games consecutively with each other, and without being there I can't speak on whether or not you attacked each other often or rarely. This is moot since I don't know how the calculation is done, but if the two of you tend to not attack each other (for whatever reason, strategic or otherwise) I would assume this is where the RC takes it's calculation. Most old schoolers would call it OTF (old trusted friend) if you have a tendancy to be "friendly" with each other. I'm not saying you do this, I'm just trying to figure out the cause.

D) The RC may or may not get reset in a timely manner. I don't know if it gets done automatically, or if Ryan has to reset manually. If it gets done manually, I suggest you send an e-mail to [email protected] on December 1st to remind him to reset it. This may or may not happen...

I'll send an e-mail to Ryan asking him to explain how the RC calculates, but don't hold your breath.

Some of my thoughts (the ones SFW and on topic)

A)Ryan can't explain how RC works exactly or cheaters can exploit it. Trust me, they already know how to avoid the RC ban, let's not make it easier.

B)He already explained the general idea behind how it is calculated in the past, The program basically checks every finish between every 2 players and gives a number that is a measure of how often you 2 finish high together in games, since many 1/2 or 1/3 together is an indication of a possible pga. If the calculated value is too high, the RC ban starts

C) I talked to phuze about it and explained the problems. I am pretty sure this is an unjust RC and I would vouch for him it can be undone

D) I can't recall any RC being manually undone upon request. I think it's "smart" of Ryan not to do start doing it or half the people getting an RC will not stop bugging Ryan until he gives in. If you give this power to the mods, they will get the same heat and sorry, this doesnt look the biggest priority to spend their mod time.

E) RC is not perfect but it's a start. I am sure that for every wrong RC, there are at least 5 justified ones. The question now is, do you accept the wrong RC for the greater good of the justified RC: no detection method is perfect so I accept the false positives

F) improvements: *IP correlations and not account correlations. Cheaters are smart enough to play with different accounts. *Not only check the place people finish but also check if the average rate that 2 players attack each other in their games isn't significantly lower than their attack% on other people (needs new coding but THIS would be a big step towards good pga detection, even though you can work around it as cheater by doing enough harmless attacks on each other to keep the att% high enough)*Have first RC punishment last a week (automatically resetting); gradually increase time of RC ban after repeated offenses

G) RC is less of a problem than in the past, since more people play the higher tables: less false RC detections because people always ended up playing the same people.

H) I only had 1 (unjustified) RC ban ever. It sucked but what can you do about it. We made a gentlemans agreement to each sit the higher table in turns when we both wanted to play.

YES! I "Out-wall of text)-ed" Thraxle by at least 25%!

OK, I admit his thoughts were better, just skip and don't complain about the length of mine

I was actually at a table chatting with Ryan when he came up with the idea of computing the RC. I remember das and monte were there for part of the conversation as well; there were others but I don't remember who at this point.

Ryan basically runs a query (now automated) to see what your average finish (placement) is when you play with a particular person and they get first, and compares it to your average finish when you don't get first. His assumption is that if you're too friendly then you will finish significantly higher than the norm when that other person finishes first, as they'll be in a position to help you.

I used to know how many games it took for the rc to be computed but I've forgotten. Maybe 15?

Ryan hasn't ever shared, to my knowledge, the specific number he uses to determine whether or not an RC should be enforced.