Forum
COMPETITIVE INTEGRITY of EACH GAME
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Mavs wrote
at 5:43 PM, Wednesday November 12, 2008 EST
There is a varying amount of favoritism that can interfere with a fair competition. The game is most competitive when all players compete for the best placement for each game. Each game should be decided by the gameboard and chatbox of that individual game. However it is unrealistic to assume people will ignore all pre-existing relationships.
What we need is a clear set of rules to form a consensus of what is fair play. I have put some examples of different categories for anti-competitive behavior to think about: Category A "Overt Corruption" Actively seeking secret alliances, use of IM instead of chatbox to cooperate or negotiate, perpetual secret alliances with one player. >I think the community will generally recognize this as unethical behavior. Some actions have been taken against a few of the worst offenders. I recommend banning all the accounts who continue to do this. Category B "Game Fixing" Regularly Helping each other based upon pre-existing relationships. Especially when it isnt indicated in the gameboard or chatbox, if two players consistently cooperate with each other by doing such things as: Not blocking their connect; reluctance to accept a smart fair truce that would hurt your friend; refusing to accept a smart fair countertruce that would hurt your friend; intentionally aiding your friend against the interest of your truce partner, accepting a flag from your friends indefensible land while not accepting flags from others, going out of the way to quickly kill someone who is flagged before your friend loses a battle. There are a lot of other ways to award unfair placement to your friends. I know that most of these people do not think they are cheating (or wont admit it anyway). In fact I think these anti-competitive relationships are the basic strategy and sense of accomplishment for most top level players. Often these PGAs begin without intent and may last for a limited number of games or weeks. EVEN IF YOU DONT INITIATE the noncompetititive PGA, if you find that there is someone who will always do you favors and you will return favorable treatment, its PGA. YOUR GOAL FOR EACH GAME SHOULD BE THE HIGHEST PLACEMENT POSSIBLE FOR THAT GAME. It is not fair to help a friend for a favor you expect in the future. I recommend resetting the points for Category B offenses, and a lengthy RC with PGA partner. Repeat offenses should be banned. Category C "Lack of Competitive Integrity" Not cutting a vulnerable friend when it would easily yield you a better position because he is your friend; flagging for lower placement when you have a good chance to beat them in a fight; accepting a flag from a friend when you could use his land to improve your finish for that game. Any instance of "not trying to win" because someone else is your friend. >I am afraid that Category C offenses are the foundation for success of top level players. You hear the complaints from new players all the time. Unfamiliar people sit at a table and are given low placement based on pre-existing relationships, and not the actions on then gameboard or chatbox. The outcome of each comeptition should be based upon the gameboard and chatbox, not pre-existing relationships. It has been very difficult to define where you cross the line when using favoritism over gameplay to determine the standings in the games. IF YOU ARE EQUALLY AS LIKELY TO DESTROY YOUR FRIEND OR GIVE THEM A FAVOR FOR BETTER PLACEMENT, then you are respecting the competitive integrity of each game. If you pass up opportunities to win because you are reluctant to hurt your friend, then you are playing wrong. I think temprary no-sit penalties and short-term RC's are fair sanctions for Catergy C offenders. I recognize that it might be impossible to implement these sanctions which would encourage fair play, because it is so common amongst top level players. Most people at the top levels don't try to win, they don't compete, they trade favors to collect points for the monthly competition. I do have hope that things will eventually change! I have already noticed some slight improvement amongst top players, but not much. |
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bcmatteagles wrote
at 8:00 AM, Thursday November 13, 2008 EST Category E: Weekstepped - Where leek uses his powers of idiocy to steal a couple spots from unsuspecting players.
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Mavs wrote
at 2:44 PM, Thursday November 13, 2008 EST Nuflis- Proxying, where one unique user is Sitting multiple accounts at one table- is obviously a Category A offense, and they should be banned immediately.
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MadWilli wrote
at 3:51 PM, Thursday November 13, 2008 EST meagles on category E: the more stupid player should be punished by public laughter on him.
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JDizzle787 wrote
at 4:06 PM, Thursday November 13, 2008 EST I didn't know that was leek's technique! I've been doing it the whole time
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Mavs wrote
at 10:04 AM, Friday November 14, 2008 EST Anyone who watches top level games knows that few people are as likely to destroy their friends as they are to give them a favor.
I don't understand why top level players lie about this lack of respect for competitive integrity, which is apparent to Ryan and most newcomers. Does anyone want to comment of why most people are deceitful about this behavior? Is it because you know its wrong and you are shameful? Or is it just strategic to hide your biases so you can trick the other people at the table? |
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bcmatteagles wrote
at 1:21 PM, Friday November 14, 2008 EST It's strategic to hide biases mainly because there are often overlapping friendships and enemies. For example last month I might be friendly with monte while XC is not friendly with monte though I'm also friendly with XC. It's better to not note who you're likely to favor cause people will counter you as soon as you do anything that indicates favorable play.
At least when I used to do the favors business that's why I wouldn't mention which people got the better favors. FWIW I don't play that way any more just sharing my past experience and what I've observed on tables. |
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ProxyCheater wrote
at 1:36 PM, Friday November 14, 2008 EST I don't think there's any big mystery. It's in the top players' self interest to favor their friends. By giving them favors, they get them in return, and since the top players play together more often than with other players, they stand to benefit from mutual cooperation.
On the converse, it's also to your detriment to create powerful enemies. If you piss off people with equal or greater skill, you're worse off than if you piss off someone who is not as capable of messing with you. And it's not just gameboard skill, it's also their other relationships and negotiating skill--people who can turn others against you are people you'd rather have on your side. I don't know if people lie about this as much as they're silent about it, or they come up with rationalizations that sounds better. I think whatever set of rules or sanctions are put in place, the competitive kdice set will find ways to optimize it in their favor. Put in ELO, people will sit on a high score to minimize their chances of losing their high place. Put in dom, they'll play so that they maximize their dom score along with their place. Part of being competitive is adapting your play style to the rules and norms of the day. |
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bcmatteagles wrote
at 1:37 PM, Friday November 14, 2008 EST Also the example from last month was completely hypothetical - XC wasn't even playing and monte and I were big proponents of good spirited competition throughout the month.
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bcmatteagles wrote
at 1:44 PM, Friday November 14, 2008 EST Also gotta back up the point Proxy made re: Strong Enemies.
I think it's well known by many that lastmurti/longhair is a notorious favor trader with a very large amount of players. (In fact he was reset earlier this month in a tournament for such play) Last month it got to such a point that every game he would have typically 2 or more friendly/favor giving players that would just let him take over the table without so much as trying to challenge. I can't count the times that he would come back from 1 or 2 land and not wiped out by his friends and end up 2nd. I decided to take him on myself because his over the top favoring was to the detriment of many unsuspecting players. So I would target him when I got the chance, and very often his friends would send ridiculous suicidal attacks into me as a result to no benefit to themselves besides future favor trading. It's a hard cycle to stop and I definitely ended up losing many more points by attacking murti then I made him loes. Though for me, making him take 7th in just a couple games that he'd normally get favored up to 2nd or 3rd, make it worth it since I'm in it for the fair play and the lols. |
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Mavs wrote
at 9:35 AM, Sunday November 16, 2008 EST Proxy, I agree that it is in the best interest of top players to trade favors with their friends.
Who is the top rated player who doesn't regularly trade favors with friends? Does anyone care? Is there anything left to save? I haven't been able to watch all the top players and document their biases. Does anyone want to volunteer themselves as a clean competitive player for public scrutiny? I will be happy to add you to my friends list and watch your games to see if you play fair, or if you take advantage of secret pre-existing relationships to give and receive higher finishes in games. (Let's start with top 25 players to see if any of you are legitimate competitors, I don't think the community will be impressed if the 70th ranked player is legit). I am afraid that the true competition amongst top players is social networking, rather than using the gameboard and chatbox for the best placement in each individual game. If may be a valid argument that top 25 players are just using the necessary tactics that all the other top players use, and the only way to win is by using the same techniques that the next guy uses. |