Forum
The Way Kdice is Meant to be Played!
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arizonan wrote
at 1:35 PM, Tuesday November 11, 2008 EST
Get this!
Was playing with a player who will not be named (oh ok, twist my arm, it was Honyo). So, picture this: Blue was in 1st. Yellow was flagged for 3rd, and I had just taken enough territories to be able to flag for the same position. Honyo was in 2nd. He flags (NOTE THIS) and then takes two of yellow's territories to move right next to me. I flag for 3rd, expecting to fight yellow. Honyo takes a territory, cutting me off from yellow. And then he proceeds to gobble me up. He says he's doing it to protect yellow who flagged before I did. Honor and all that. I kick up the usual fuss trying to get blue to intervene so that I can fight yellow for 3rd, rather than be gobbled up by Honyo. Blue sits it out. Honyo is flagged for 2nd, so Blue can do nothing. After all there's a flag up. By the time I have been eaten and digested, purple, who is bigger than yellow, has flagged 3rd too. Honyo is still flagged for 2nd, but is now in first place because of the territories he has taken from me. He says purple should reflag. Again, this is to protect yellow, who after all was the first to flag 3rd. Honor, again. Sadly, blue lies between Honyo and purple. So Honyo's in a tough place. How can he live up to his honor and protect yellow's third place flag? Here's where it gets good. To protect yellow's flag, Honyo decides to ignore his own. He attacks blue, rolling *very* well and taking a bunch of territories. Basically he rolls over blue, who is forced to flag and rips into purple. Purple fights back, but blue's luck is bad. He flags 2nd, but isn't even able to hold that. The final result is that blue reflags for 4th. Yellow gets 3rd, and purple gets 2nd. HONYO, WHO HAD FLAGGED FOR SECOND, GETS FIRST!!!! So get the logic? Yellow's third place flag is important enough that it's worth upending the game. So much so that Honyo is willing to ignore his own 2nd place flag. Oh, the sacrifices we make for honor.... Now, obviously, this turned out pretty bad for me (though not as bad as it did for blue). BUT I LOVE IT. This makes Kdice so much more interesting! Think of how cool it would be if the culture changed so that flags could easily be disregared. It would certainly add gobs of frisson to the later stages of the game. Certainly beats players whining about respecting flags and so on... So whaddya guys think? |
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xy< wrote
at 1:50 PM, Tuesday November 11, 2008 EST honyo played well. he won
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arizonan wrote
at 1:54 PM, Tuesday November 11, 2008 EST oh. I agree.
He won by flagging 2nd and using blue's trust to gain him enough time and territories to get to 1st place. Very macchiavellian! And I honestly think Kdice would be more fun if this stuff was encouraged and allowed rather than shouted down with whines every time somebody "doesn't honor their flag." |
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arizonan wrote
at 1:54 PM, Tuesday November 11, 2008 EST not that I'm against whining. All forms of diplomacy should be on the table...
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volcom3452 wrote
at 3:48 PM, Tuesday November 11, 2008 EST will blue got what he had comen to him for just sitting by and letting HONYO kill you
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arizonan wrote
at 8:20 PM, Tuesday November 11, 2008 EST but blue played the way that most people play -- trusting others to settle for the position for which they flagged. In this case he expected Honyo to be happy with 2nd.
So it's hard to say it's his fault. He's a victim of the culture of no backstabbing, no? |
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riccardo wrote
at 8:31 PM, Tuesday November 11, 2008 EST I think it is the person who flagged job to protect his flagged rank. I have hit players who intervene in such fights and so would have gone after Honyo at the beginning of this scenario if I had been blue. There are those who prefer the more chaotic approach, but they become known for this and then tend to be early targets in most games ... it isn't that they are wrong, just that the community values a different behavior.
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Honyo wrote
at 12:26 AM, Wednesday November 12, 2008 EST hm, i read it now,
but I not good at readimg English, Though I might misunderstand it. I think that at that time,brown and yellow had fought it out, yellow flaged first for 3 fd but yellwo posion too weak. I wana respect flag,but if I waited for their fight ending,brown would grow up　more than me & he not flag 3 rd at that time though brown could put up a flag.So I WENT THRUGH YELLOW AFTER I TOOK YELLOWS TWO LAND. SO I MUST　PROTECT YELLOWS 3RD POSITON. At that time ,There was the purple across one blue territory.so he could attack me easily. but he not do nothig,purple land 7 blue land 13,me 13.yellow 3 Because there was the yellow in the distance from the battle front, the participation is not possible to fight.I asked blue to spoil purple for readiness to become the fourth place and waited for three turns. but he no answer.I have won 5 straight victories by 8 to 8 fight when I attacked it in blue. I had not seen it working as such a winning, and myself was surprised. Yellow is Jose, Please ask me or Jose if there is doubt for this fight |
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arizonan wrote
at 11:35 PM, Wednesday November 12, 2008 EST Honyo: I'm not criticizing your tactics, so much as suggesting the "ethics" of kdice be changed to accommodate them.
The only think I hold against you is that you don't own your actions. I mean, c'mon. Honoring yellow's third place flag is so important you attack 1st place to defend it. But if you happen to get 1st, while flagged 2nd, that's okay? Just admit you play to win! |
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arizonan wrote
at 11:36 PM, Wednesday November 12, 2008 EST So riccardo, you would attack a 2nd place flag if he was getting more territories than you?
Just wondering, cuz most people I play with seem to think that's not kosher. You'd get a lot of WTFs if you attacked somebody flagged to you. It seems to be assumed that 2nd place will always concede to 1st. I just think the game would be more fun if that wasn't the case. |
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bcmatteagles wrote
at 7:57 AM, Thursday November 13, 2008 EST Honyo knew what he was doing all along, that "protect yellow's flag business is pure nonsense. Just a way for him to accumulate more lands and later punish the first place player and get them to flag.
This is a classic kdice move that is commonly referred to as "getting das'd" Because dasfury was the first to master the technique at the 10k tables last month. Note to those in 1st place players if you don't want this to happen either punish the 2nd place player with threats that you will give them last place by interfering with the lower level fights or take a land from 2nd for each one they take from the smaller players. Any 1st place player that gets das'd has it coming because they didn't have enough control over the table. |
