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a short discussion on niceness.
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Sophalis wrote
at 10:01 AM, Wednesday November 5, 2008 EST
so, i'm writing this about a phenomenon i've noticed increasingly recently in kdice since the introduction of the flagging system.
i was watching a game just now on the hundred tables. one player had a clear first after four rounds and quickly elicited panic flags from the second and third largest players, both of whom were next to him and weakly stacked. the fourth largest, who was well stacked but a little to the side, asked if he could fight for third and moved towards the third place player, but was immediately cut by first, then repeatedly attacked by all three larger players, despite clearly having stated the situation in the chat box. the first and second place players, even though they had a safe first and second and were not being threatened, despite the fact that there is no dom on hundred tables and they had absolutely nothing to lose by being gentlemen and sitting still for a couple rounds and letting 3rd and 4th sort it out between themselves, continued to hit this player until the guy flagged fourth. what the hell is with people being so rude and nasty? since when does getting a good start mean you get to play the little dictator and screw other people's chances of doing well just so the game ends two rounds earlier? yes, it's a war game, and hitting other people is not only normal but expected, but in a situation like that it's completely uncalled for and unnecessary. those of you who have been around here for a while will remember my previous posts, so i guess you'll be used to me trying to make the kdice community a little nicer now and then. it would be interesting to hear what you all think about this one. ps. i clicked discussion already. |
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cleverusername wrote
at 6:46 PM, Wednesday November 5, 2008 EST Sophalis, it's a war game. Your first assumption, that niceness/fairness has or should have anything to do with it, is incorrect.
And what you're really suggesting is that 1st should waste her time doing nothing waiting for some silly grudge match to play out. Sounds like 2nd and 3rd players helped 1st to get 1st. Maybe she was rewarding them and punishing a player who tried to take first. It doesn't really matter, 1st generally gets to decide the lower places and it's going to vary a lot between players. Just remember, war isn't fair or nice or just. This isn't "Friends", and you're not Joey. Look up "Diplomacy" the game, this is a rapid online version of that and "Risk". The whole purpose of the game is to form alliances and backstab and doublecross, etc. It's a game of vicious machiavellian politics, there's no room for nice except as a strategy. |
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moondust wrote
at 7:03 PM, Wednesday November 5, 2008 EST Some people consider kdice as a war game.
However, don't forget that kdice is also a strategy game and even more important: Kdice is also a SOCIAL game. So be polite and use adequate language. We are not in kindergarten anymore. |
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cleverusername wrote
at 8:16 PM, Wednesday November 5, 2008 EST there's no rules in war... use whatever language/strategy you want
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Vermont wrote
at 10:53 PM, Wednesday November 5, 2008 EST Just to clarify, for the easily confused, this is _not_ actual war. There are no soldiers involved, no land involved, no combat of any nature other than the confrontations on opposite sides of a greater than sign.
And heck, even in true war, the Geneva conventions dictate how you should treat your opposition, should they behave in accordance with the conventions themselves. Then again, I could get done posting this and your ninjas could break down my door and beat me so I lag out. I've always wanted to meet a ninja. r0n, you don't count. g' night all! :) |
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Embair wrote
at 3:11 AM, Thursday November 6, 2008 EST I find it beautiful, that these unwritten conventions of flag respect and fights for positions exists. Its an agreement throught the whole community, adding more respect and fair play to the game. You can compare it with real life - there are written laws, which youre obliged to obey. And then there are moral norms, which are not enrooted in the law, but in the society itself (dont betray your friend, dont be too selfish, dont profit on someone elses harm, etc.). And society marginalizes people, who ignore them, so that these "laws" are protected - becouse when the people who break them wont be punished, these rules would slowly cease to exist. With kdice conventions its pretty much the same deal.
My dear anarchists of kdice, of course youre not braking any mandatory rules. Of course everything is allowed. Lie, backstab, fuck flags, whatever. But don't blame the community for hating you for your actions - it's the only way to protect the rules, which we believe are good. Maybe one day there will be enough of you for the conventions change and the game to become a multiplayer dice wars. Well i won't be playing it by that time for sure. But until that day comes, prepare to suffer, bitches. Nothing personal! |
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cleverusername wrote
at 3:57 AM, Thursday November 6, 2008 EST Vermont, it appears you got confused... as I made clear, this is a war _game_. I know I failed to make that qualification in my last post, but it was in the previous one and I hoped most readers would be able to join the dots.
Embair, actually it's those who think this is a society tea party who have the most difficulty in my experience. Anarchist types can handle the reality of the game. Bringing xtian values to kdice will destroy it. Morality and etiquette are antithetical to the spirit of the game. It's the equivalent of the community of pro-footballers frowning on anyone who tackles the opposition because it might lead to physical harm. If you want this to turn into a game where all the places are decided on the first turn and everyone forms an orderly line according to the dictates of etiquette, then I suggest you instead just go to church. That's the place designed for the docile cattle of the world. |
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nuflis wrote
at 4:42 AM, Thursday November 6, 2008 EST lol cleverusername, enjoy YOUR game, I'll keep enjoying MY game. Obviously we are not talking about the same game.
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Embair wrote
at 5:19 AM, Thursday November 6, 2008 EST Mr. "cleverusername", Im happy you are "able to handle the reality of the game", i was reffering to that "STUPID FLAGGING BITCHES GROW SOME BALLS" kind of morons everyone ocasionaly runs into. Noone likes "I PROMISED TO FLAG STOP FUCKING KILLING ME YOU ASSHOLE" whinies as well for sure. But well you say we should take kdice as a sport (say football)? Then as i said i wont play such game for more then few times, before getting bored. Kdice is not chess, kdice is in the end quite stupid luck based game. The thing, which makes me play it regularly, is the bigger picture. The community - the social aspect of the game. I enjoy the diplomacy and the picture of kdice as a big world of players struggling for victory while they know they cant make it without being respected by the others. Usually those "anarchist" say we take the game too seriously. But that has NOTHING to do with it. I can't agree more, that it is just stupid game and noone should really care for their points and just play for fun. But without diplomacy and pretending that it is more then a simple game, I just wont have fun playing it. And these rules that emerged about flagging, fighting for position, etc. are logical outcome of the social aspect of the game. They have nothing to do with real kdice rules, its just a part of the current state of "global" kdice world. And i find them being a healthy and interesting way of kdice world development.
So, if you say bringing morality to kdice destroys it, i say quite the opposite: Stripping kdice of morality would destroy it. Maybe we are both right and the question is to WHO would it destroy the game. |
