I agree with Grun. rnd should be allowed to keep his place among the greats since he was pretty damn good without all the cheating anyway. Wouldn't it be just as wrong to reward those who cheated (mikeypoo, LUCK, etc.) to bring him and his cabal down?

rnd may have abused the system, and a thousand players in the process of acheiveing what he calls "my complete and unquestioned mastery of this game," but he did (and does when he makes an appearance) embrace the community and foster friendships with those who frequent this site.

BJ:

In golf, if a player concedes, and it turns out that there had been an error in keeping score and he had actually won, the concession still holds. Gore conceded before he didn't concede.

Yes, keep rnd.

You could add an * next to his name, ala Barry Bonds :-)

I have no idea why it is insisted that this form of play is cheating. It's quite clear which players are friendly with each other to anyone that consistently made the 2000 tables and later the 1000 point tables. Many times I have sat at a table and noticed a pre-game truce and managed to rally some others at the table to beat it.

That's part of the fun of the game.

Rnd was a very strong tactical player as was everyone on the 2000s but a very effective social player which is why he shouldn't be removed from the top list. Everyone who is consistently around the top has a group of players that they are more or less friendly just because you can rely on them to make the right plays.

firstly, i am not ryan.

secondly, in sports, like track and field, cycling, people who cheat are strip off their medals.

TAKE MARION JONES AS AN EXAMPLE.

if you want to keep people like rnd on a list, set up one for all time cheaters.

In cycling, teams draft each other to help out the team, same idea glad you brought it up

kdicefreak, good idea --- but ryan came up with a list of "cheaters" over a year ago:

http://aplayr.com/kdice/kdice/stat/

"Making the game multiplayer has added a great politcal aspect on top of Dicewars’ mix of luck and strategy."

-Ryan
www.rdews.com

I'm going to steal this quote from another thread.

What better way of adding politics then effectively building up groups of players that work together to improve their overall position in the hierarchy of the game. How is this cheating?

rnds place in khistory, from my personal experience:

1) he played a TON of games to start out with. i still think he owns the record as far as number of games in one month (even more than MikeyPoo). he was able to maintain 3 accounts in the top 25, which is ludicrous.

2) he had the strongest personality of the cabal. out of all of the team, he was the most type-A personality out there. the few times that that annoyed me to the point that i would target him in games, other members of the cabal present in that game (most notably integral) would team up with rnd to ensure that rnd would still get a 1st, and i would learn my place. basically, the cabal became a leader/bitches community, where rnd was the leader, and at the other end of the spectrum, dasfury was the all-time bitch.

3) he geniusly manipulated the cabal, and all other players as well, into helping him maintain first. he would use his alt accounts to give you a first at a game, then say, 'you owe me', then would claim the repayment with his main account. this took me a couple months before i realized how he was duping us all. now whenever i see someone do i minor minor favor, but make it seem a large favor, and ask for a 1st in repayment later on... i call that a 'rnd favor', since he invented this tactic. genius.

in all of my experience with the bastard, i would not call any of his strategies 'cheating'. he is extremely gifted at seeing the system, finding loopholes before anyone else can (like 'rnd favors' with alternate accounts), and he deserves to take advantage of these loopholes. i believe that to the winner go the spoils.

he knows when to be nice to gain points.
he knows when to be crazy to gain points.
he knows when to get pissy to gain points.

anyways, Ryan, (from my perspective), if youre going to penalize any cheating in the history of kdice, then the first place would be the youtubed flagfest to get integral 1st place that one month. as of the next-to-last day of the month, X LUCK X was a solid 1st, i was a solid 2nd... and i forget the order from there on down, and LUCK and i decided we had been around the game enough that he didnt care if he got 2nd instead of 1st, and i didnt care if i got 3rd instead of 2nd, and we decided it would be an interesting experiment to see if we could get someone from nowhere to 1st in a day. and at that moment in time, integral had the most popularity among the 'elite' (that sounds bad to call it the elite, i know). so we all decided to shoot integral up. im sure if we were to do the same this month, everyone would decide to shoot vermont or nuflis up... you know someone who is nice, but never gets 1st.

so yeah, i think it would take no small amount of bias to simply target rnd out of all of the 'cheating' that has happened in khistory.

just my $0.02

I wasn't playing when all that rnd stuff happend, but some people seem to strongly disaprove with his methods. The question i want to set up is the following:

Where is the line between being nice to a friend and cheating?

I've run into several in game debates where i was accused of PGA. In the end the discussion usually goes totally of topic and isn't nice to read anymore. A general guideline could prevent these people from going mad and others from beeing treated in an unfair way.