More testing an even more interesting fact: I've let only one bot alive and stopped attacking. I've let him regain some territory back. There was no point change for either of us until he got enough to become first. I started to attack him again and brought him back to 1 territory but my max point limit dropped by 3k points (which happened when I've lost 1st place) and never returned to the original value. It seems everything works as intended.

"Looks like my T wasn't working."

ummmm... read the rules before posting this offensive material in the forums. NO PORN.

seriously, can we ban this Ryan account?

_o/_: NEX MONH HERE WON BE ANY POIN FARMING

Originally posted by kdicefreak: "It’s totally unfair. Take this example:

3 players left with the number of territories as follows:

1st – 15
2nd – 8
3rd – 2

The first place player keep on attacking the 2nd place one until he/she is down to 2-3 territories. If you were the 2nd player, do you flag and give the one with 2 territories 2nd? Is 3 place player deserve to be 2nd by hiding? Assuming the 2nd and 3rd place player are far apart and so the 2nd player cannot kill of the 3rd.

Farming is not unethical, but it’s definitely evil in my opinion. The last release has gotten rid of the phoenix and ninja problem, and PGA has largely reduced. I hope Ryan make some changes to the end game in the Dec. 1 release to eliminate this kind of unhealthy game play. It makes the game not fun at all."

It seems to me that "phoenixes" and "ninjas" are part of the game. There will always be people whose strategy becomes a wait-and-build-up affair and people who will take out as many as they can on their way over the cliff. Those aren't kdice-specific idioms, they're general strategy game personality traits.

Also, per your example, if you're outnumbered 15-8, regardless of how many territories are in 3rd place, and 1st is starting to attack you, you have three choices:

1. Try to fight back against your numerically superior aggressor (usually suicide, but the dice have a way of making it possible).

2. Go after 3rd to ensure that you finish second (and if you outnumber 3rd 8-2, you've got a better than average shot at that).

3. Flag and take whatever you've earned for 3rd.

Now all of those choices have something in common: YOU have to DO SOMETHING. The problem is not with the game, but with how people choose to deal with the situation (kinda like life). If you sit back and assume that the guy in 1st is going to be some kdice philosopher king who knows all of what is right and good according to some unwritten "ethical" (in a war game, that cracks me up) set of ideals, you're likely not going to enjoy the outcome.

The point is, stop bitching about farmers, acknowledge that if you're not solidly in 1st, you're not in control, and TAKE control of what you can (or, as we all know how fickle the dice are, make the ATTEMPT to take control). Just sitting around whining about the "farmers" is patently gutless and willfully ignorant of your own position.

You have options, and if you choose to bitch about how someone who has seized the lead is playing instead of carving out the best possible result for yourself, you deserve mockery, not sympathy.

Improv42 wrote with respect to possible actions against point farmers:

1. Try to fight back against your numerically superior aggressor (usually suicide, but the dice have a way of making it possible).

2. Go after 3rd to ensure that you finish second (and if you outnumber 3rd 8-2, you've got a better than average shot at that).

3. Flag and take whatever you've earned for 3rd.

My response:

1. I did try to attack the 1st place player and sometimes I succeed and sometimes fail.
2. I have stated in my example that this is not possible because of the location of the territories for the 2nd and 3rd place player (perhaps their territories are separated by the 1st place ones). And if this is not the case, again I would definitely try to take out the 3rd place player and then flag, so as to end the point farm.
3. Are you saying that it’s fair for me to be 3rd in my example? Life is not fair I know. But I don’t come here to get a dose of reality. I come here to have fun.

Well, point farming is not illegal; it’s not equivalent to Marion Jones taking steroids. But I remember reading some time ago that Ryan’s goal for creating the game is for people to have fun and socialize. Point farmers, phoenixers, and ninjas surely took the fun out of the game and replace it with frustration.

The fact that Ryan has released and is releasing upgrades to minimize, if not eliminate, point farmers, phoenixers, and ninjas should indicate to you that, in a way, he agrees that those are undesirable practices and unpleasant by-product of the point system.

Enough said. The changes are coming on Dec. 1. I totally look forward to it.

Thanks Improv42 for responding to my post. I think it's a very healthy and constructive discussion.

The game is getting better and better. Thanks Ryan.