Hi,

I don't have a problem with the guy with one stack getting 2nd because of an alliance.

I have a problem that if I have 20 territories, the only logical thing for me to do is target the guy in 2nd to steal his dom (but let him keep his rank and maybe some dom points so that he doesn't flag).

How do I spell out to you guys that that is not optimal fun gameplay?

sigh...

----

http://www.folj.com/puzzles/difficult-logic-problems.htm
100 Gold Coins

Five pirates have obtained 100 gold coins and have to divide up the loot. The pirates are all extremely intelligent, treacherous and selfish (especially the captain).

The captain always proposes a distribution of the loot. All pirates vote on the proposal, and if half the crew or more go "Aye", the loot is divided as proposed, as no pirate would be willing to take on the captain without superior force on their side.

If the captain fails to obtain support of at least half his crew (which includes himself), he faces a mutiny, and all pirates will turn against him and make him walk the plank. The pirates start over again with the next senior pirate as captain.

What is the maximum number of coins the captain can keep without risking his life?

*SPOILERS* ;)

Answer: 98

The captain says he will take 98 coins, and will give one coin to the third most senior pirate and another coin to the most junior pirate. He then explains his decision in a manner like this...

If there were 2 pirates, pirate 2 being the most senior, he would just vote for himself and that would be 50% of the vote, so he's obviously going to keep all the money for himself.

If there were 3 pirates, pirate 3 has to convince at least one other person to join in his plan. Pirate 3 would take 99 gold coins and give 1 coin to pirate 1. Pirate 1 knows if he does not vote for pirate 3, then he gets nothing, so obviously is going to vote for this plan.

If there were 4 pirates, pirate 4 would give 1 coin to pirate 2, and pirate 2 knows if he does not vote for pirate 4, then he gets nothing, so obviously is going to vote for this plan.

As there are 5 pirates, pirates 1 & 3 had obviously better vote for the captain, or they face choosing nothing or risking death.

----

The result there is similar to what happens here in kdice. There are 3 pirates. The guy in 1st is captain with 30 coins of rank and 25 coins of dom, 2nd has 25 coins of rank and 20 coins of dom, 3rd has nothing. Captain offers one coin of dom to 3rd, 3rd is happy. Captain takes 2nd's 20 coins of dom but lets him keep his 25 rank so he has to logically accept it. First place is rewarded with 19 dom coins for delaying the game (and playing like an ass). This is the logical result that shall occur in every three player game. It's not even a game, it's lame pirate stealing from players who had *earned 2nd place* but have to either *surrender rank* points to 3rd or *surrender dom* points to 1st. At the advanced levels the player in 1st is going to say, "Okay player 2, i'm going to take three of your land, then player 3 is going to take one and then flag or else I'll kill him." If you think that choice between rank and dom is a fun game then keep having fun abusing the system (and the players who ignore it because they would rather have fun gameplay that you are killing for them with your greed).

@silverfox: I'm a huge plagiarist so pretend I've never said anything

"Set sail and raise anchor, ARRRGHHH!"

I hereby suggest that "point farmers" be referred to as pirate captains or "pirates" so that they can be more easily distinguished from the pga point farmers.

Interesting

Well yea, its not as fun, but its the way you're supposed to play.

Don't need to bring pga into this. A better example is a brand new player keeps getting attacked for no reason when he's in 2nd except because it's "the way you're supposed to play," he'll probably quit

didn't mean to quote you bj but those were the exact words I was thinking >.>

Great insight on what's really going on JKD. ;) But seriously, that was an interesting reading.

The best solution I've seen so far was Silverfox's first idea. Make a side pot and each player will take x points out of it each turn. The faster the players flag, the better for the leader. The problem would be to balance it with dom points. Dom would have to be large enough to force 1 terr players out of the game yet side pot has to be large enough for leading player to try to go for it (instead of dom juicing).

For those that believe this is the way the game is meant to be played, I respectfully dissagree.

Unless Ryan himself wants to chime in and tell us this is the case, I will continue to believe that this is an unintended consequence of an otherwise good idea.

The road to Hell is paved with... Bah.. You get the idea. :)

Yea, it bothers me all the new players look at their zero score and just give up. we get a bunch on new players for a day, then you never see them again.

Silverfox: The ranks are based on overall points. The winner is the one with the most points, therefore the strategy of the game is to get as many points on a win that you can.

Use bounties.

When you eliminate a player, you get points. This should allow the balancing of the point farming with a competing bounty incentive.

Specifically, I'd think halving the current points allocation (reducing the ups and down) and supplementing with a +5/person eliminated would do wonders.

I'd expect that it'd also incline people to (rightly) pick off the weakest first.