1st of all, I think it's up to the players to recognize what is going on. If he can't get to the protected 1-stack to kill it, and the big guys is just protecting it, then flag so you don't lose more points.

I will often let two smaller guys fight it out. They accept the risk of fighting each other as opposed to fighting with each other against the guy in first.

That being said, if you want "fix" it, I suggest that no points be acquired in the round where you end turn without attacking if your currently in 1st, and the points in the pool get distributed instead among those who did attack that round....or something like that....a non-attack penalty.

Dom Ceiling

Autoflagging active people with 1 territory won't work, the dominating player would just leave them 2 terrs. Then you would want to autoflag people with 2 terrs and he will leave them 3 terrs etc.

The best approach would be to give the leading player the incentive to kill players quickly. The quicker he kills someone, the better for him. I am against bonus points for finishing players though. I can imagine it would cause a lot of chaos.

Dom ceiling is a sound idea. But wouldn't leading players farm position points?

Here's an idea that has been floating around my head for a few days now. It makes the interface a little more complicated, but it would solve all of the problems of a large leader taking the game in directions that none of the other players appreciate.

Put an additional checkbox (radio button, to be precise) in every player's info window. Clicking on this button means that you think that the player deserves first place. If everyone other than the leader has indicated the player in this manner, the leader is auto-resigned with the top placement score and her share of the dominance pot. With all of those fields neutralized, the remaining players play on for the remaining placements. In theory, at a later point another player could be removed in the same manner and the remaining players would fight for third, and so on.

This would stop the point farming in its tracks, and would also ease up on the problem of two players who want the leader to leave them alone so they can fight for second. I don't suspect that it is unfair to the ejected winner -- in theory they are losing out on some dominance but they also got their points several minutes faster and they can join another game.

Totally unfair to eject the winner with the current scheme. As it is, points are placed into the pot when someone dies. If someone wins the game and is 'ejected' by all 6 remaining players, they miss out on practically 70% of the possible points they would have gotten for winning the game.


Also, integral would just use this to flag fest.

This would solve the issue I believe.

At the beginning of the game every player puts a set number of points (15-20 pts per person would be a good number for the 10 and under tables) into a side pot. Only the first place finisher will get these points. The catch is every round the points diminish by a number equal to the number of players left (-7 each round at the beginning and less as players get killed or flag).

This gives incentive for the person in first place to kill off the weaker players (to slow the rate of point loss). It also gives him incentive to win the game faster (to get as many points from the side pot as possible).

It may be that with this scheme the side points disappear completely before the game is won. So be it. The intention is that this is a bonus for winning quickly; not a given point award for first.

All other scoring stays in place as is (or as it gets changed from time to time).

Second idea:

After four players are eliminated from the game, the point contribution stops for the last three players. The points will be set and only change by territory aquisition, thus giving an incentive for the dominated players to flag before lossing any more of their territories.

If everyone just sits there, no point change occurs, thus farming isn't possible.

This is elegant and very easy to impliment (something I try to consider for Ryan's sake).

Appologies to JKD. My second idea is very much like his Dom Ceiling. Didn't mean to plagerize. :)

I support this idea as the most simple to impliment.

Point farming relies on people who can't calculate dom or don't know/care to know the risk/reward of playing another round. A way to help players is to have the point totals for each place finish (+50 for 1st, +25 for second, etc) spelled out in the same page. This way players can plan ahead instead of just seeing how they would finish if they flagged that turn under the current interface.

The problem boils down into the need to outlast each other with the intent to play to win. Before, people who had one or two lands and hoped to outlast others who tried to fight. Now it is this.

A dom ceiling is an extreme measure that amounts to baby sitting and the idea that players are too stupid or proud to realize that they're being used. We've all been in a situation where we were 2nd all game but is now forced with the prospect of flagging for 4th. It's not fair to flag. It's not right. blah blah blah

But it's your choice not to flag and it's your choice to try to right the wrong or play for spite. The point farmer doesn't have a gun to your head. Even if you wish you had a gun to pointed at the 1 land player, these type of players exist in all multiplayer games.

It's not a symptom of the new system. In fact, by changing the ante rules so that you don't pay it in later rounds, the system is encouraging players with a few lands in the corner not to flag. Simply put, each change dealing with this problem in human nature has consequences that are the same or worse than not fixing the issue.

I was in a game today where the leader was protecting another player's single stack.
I made ever effort to get to that stack to kill it.
I was tied with the leader when he got a string of lucky rolls and split me deep. I made a mad dash for that single stack and didn't make it. I flagged for 3rd.

Then I congratulated him on a well played game.

Don't complain about the system, embrace it. A good player will respect Ryan's wishes on how he wants the game played and adapt to it.

Ryan made the game this way for a good reason the way he sees fit.