9:05 pm, August 2, 2007 CDT
leekstep

I wish I didnt play kdice so much. POST-CABAL ERA
Early July:
The status of the cabal was uncertain: BCMattEagles and RND were IP blocked by Ryan for impersonating me on the site. Integral, Wishbone, Montecarlo, X LUCK X, XCRobin had phoenixed or retired.

That just left three prominent cabal members to worry about: riser and dasfury and Vermont. (BCM and RND managed to play many games this month despite the IP block, I guess they have some knowledge of using a proxy server to alter their IP address).

The general population of kdice was happy with me for revealing the unfair tactics used by the cabal: http://aplayr.com/kdice/kdice/forum/topics/integral%20rnd%20montecarlo/. It was easy for me to find people to work with in the game. The remnants of the cabal and their PGAs were trying to sabotage me, but I was playing enough games to overcome some bad finishes. I was in first!

Second Week of July
Sinth began a heavy campaign of PGAs, private IMs, and playing with proxies (I didn’t notice any simultaneous disconnections or lags to prove if it was Sinth or his teammates that was controlling the proxies). Sinth’s teammates at this time included AlmogBitten, BigJumblies, SodaPop, RND.

Riser, BCMatteagles, Dasfury moved into contention also. They were aided by the usual cabal network of PGAs and Riser was using proxies.

At this time, I began to mobilize the anti-cabal (now just WayneRooney, Cabbage, Mikeypoo) with some clear goals: BEAT THE CABAL! It only took us a few days to realize that we could utilize the same techniques as the other cheaters and finish with the top 4 spots.

Leekstep WayneRooney Mikeypoo and ShamosM (Cabbage) all had accounts over 2250, and we had another 10 or so over 2000. I knew that Cabbage and WayneRooney were capable of proxy cheating, but I don’t know if they did it for the initial run.

We began to PGA, especially me and WayneRooney, and we were just doing amazingly well. I assume the games with Wayne didn’t involve proxies, and we were just doing really well. WayneRooney, Mikeypoo, and Cabbage were top 20-25. I was in first!

Mid July
Dasfury BCM Riser fell behind. Even cabal members RND and XCRobin were supporting me. There was no cabal, there was no competition. People were happy to see a leader who didn’t cheat. I was approaching 250 games, most of them (but not all) without any instant messaging, PGA, or any cheating. I was in first!

15th July
An end of month scoring reset seemed like a reality, and pretty much anyone with a good elo considered making a competitive run for the month. Our four team members were all top 25 and we had 4 of the top 5 elos. Most of the cabal members had returned, and it seemed like the end of the month competition was going to be tough.

It was obvious that it was easiest for our team to earn points by going on “runs”. If we all tried to accumulate points at the same time, the guy with second elo would earn just .33 points per game instead of .5 per game if he were in first, the guy in third would only earn .25 points per game instead of .33, etc. If we were to achieve the goal of all four of us earning 30 points, then we needed to cooperate.

Mikey and Wayne and Cabbage worried that after helping me win July, they wouldn’t have an opportunity to win in August. I was mainly interested in keeping the four of us at the top, ahead above the cabal all month… so I agreed to a fair competition amongst the four of us at the end of the month.

Since his elo was a few points higher at the time, I told Wayne to go ahead and his his position to earn 25-30 points as quickly as possible. I thought this would discourage other people from competing. Our group worked to get WayneRooney first place as often as possible. Cabbage and I would sit with our high elo main accounts to give Wayne the maximum score available. At times we would even use proxies when we ran into a large group of cheaters.

Wayne’s elo kept climbing and his behavior became odd. Wayne was just interested in playing a few games each day and getting his elo higher. He became scared to use his main account unless he had lots of PGAs/proxies sitting with him. Instead of playing lots of games and earning lots of points, Wayne decided to sit selectively. Wayne was still very active in sitting alternate accounts to assist the team, but he would never sit WayneRooney.

It became frustrating that WayneRooney was not earning points. We were still concerned about the cabal making a run. Wayne was not only blocking our earning potential with his high elo, he wasn’t able to support us by sitting with his primary account. Despite the fact that we were giving him an elo boost when we sat with our primaries to assist him.

I was also frustrated that Wayne was sitting on obviously unbelievable elo (2350+) and unbelievable winning percentages (over 30% firsts). I wanted him to get his 30 points quickly, then work his way back to legitimate-looking numbers. This would also give us an opportunity to earn points.

I started to notice a ton of proxies, our team began to implement this tactic in our play. Mikeypoo strongly objected to the use of proxies, but it was a tool that Wayne Cabbage and I would use at times. I reported some use of proxies to Ryan, and he deleted the accounts. I was in first!

18th–20th July
Proxy abuse got worse. I began to build a database. It is nearly impossible to identify who is controlling each of the proxy accounts. I could identify the people the proxies sat with most frequently, and the obvious PGA partners for the proxies, but its hard to identify the person controlling each patsy account.

I had more games played than anyone, I was in first place. I realized that I didn’t have the time to play this many games each day. The only way I could keep earning points at a high rate would be by using proxies or PGAs and selectively playing games like Riser and WayneRooney.

At this point I became unhappy with the game, realizing that I would need to cheat for myself in order to keep pace with the other cheaters. I continued to report obvious proxy abuses, such as Sinth and Riser. I “retired” from the game (reduced my playing time from 15-20 per day to one or two per day). I was in first!

22nd July
I reported myself for using proxies in an email to Ryan. I hoped it would convince him to implement the new scoring system, or undertake some other technological changes to fix the game. I was in first!

28th July
RND caught WayneRooney using a proxy when he noticed that 5 team accounts were in the room, but the team only had 4 members. It didn’t help that WayneRooney’s best previous month was 15% first and 15% second, and this month he cheated so bad it was 29% first and 21% second. I told RND that I was going to wait until August 2 to release the details of our scheme.

31st July
RND makes a post from my Leekstep account releasing some of the details of our scheme because he felt “if there was a chance that Ryan was going to do something it had to be done before the end of the month.”

Conclusions:
Nobody ever finished top 2 without cheating: heavy use of Private Instant Messaging, Proxies, Lots of PreGameAlliances, etc.

PGAs, IMs, Proxies are like steroids in baseball. If they arent testing for it, then you might as well do it. Especially if you want to be a star. The cabal is no worse than the anti-cabal or the Sodapop Gang or anything else.

It sucks playing a game that you need to cheat if you want to win!
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |
9:11 pm, August 2, 2007 CDT
Wicked!

Very nice Leek, makes me glad I quit way back when. Go Cleo!
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Sex:Female | Location:United States |
9:51 pm, August 2, 2007 CDT
RaccoonTail

Arrested for what, baby? For being awesome? I have a short attention span, so I just skipped down to the bottom of your probably very well written and insightful manuscript. This is my response to your conclusions, for what it is worth.
I've made top 25 twice, since Ryan started keeping track, and never has a month gone by that I was not top 100. Does anyone here know my first name? NO. Does anyone here know my IM handle? NO. Do I do (proxies) steroids? NO. Am I good at kdice? Yes.
Conclusion: YOU need win at any cost, so you cheat.
At least, that is my perspective. But what do I know, I am just a stupid noob, who never even placed top 2.
(go team coonballs, for the hate)
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Age: 25 |Sex:Male | Location:Undisclosed,United States |
10:02 pm, August 2, 2007 CDT
leekstep

I wish I didnt play kdice so much. Raccoon! Thats the point! You are probably the highest rated player over that time who doesnt cheat!

The only way to finish top 2 is by cheating! Even with everyone helping me for busting the cabal, it wasnt enough to finish in the top 2 without cheating. I didnt cheat much, but the only possbile way to keep the pace up is by cheating. Nobody can stay 2300 without serious PGAs or worse.
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |
10:31 pm, August 2, 2007 CDT
Sinth

GWT Engineer Leek, all that sounds great. However, it's also all tainted with a huge black mark in my mind.

You're dead wrong about me.

Given that in the only case I have firsthand knowledge about (myself) you're wrong, I have no reason to believe any of the rest of it.

kthxbye
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Age: 29 |Sex:Male | Location:Atlanta,United States | Website:http://code.google.com/webtoolkit
10:38 pm, August 2, 2007 CDT
leekstep

I wish I didnt play kdice so much. Wait Sinth, you know firsthand that your PGAs and IM buddies absolutely, positively did not use proxies? Very interesting!

I am dead wrong about you, if you claim to know absolutely positively that the people who you cheat with arent using proxies!

I said before, I am not sure that you are the one controlling the dummy accounts sitting at the table with you.
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |
11:14 pm, August 2, 2007 CDT
Sinth

GWT Engineer It's a moot point, Leek, because there's only one person I've ever PGA'd with, and that's rnd(*). I'm 99% sure he doesn't use proxies; of course you never know for sure, right? At any rate, games with rnd were a tiny fraction (5-10%) of my games last month, it didn't make much difference either way. Other than that, I had no PGAs. So all of the silly accusations about SodaPop and whoever else are, well, silly.

(*) PGAing with rnd hardly counts anyway, because a) he PGAs with everyone and b)it's hardly worth it. 25% of the time he forgets what color you are and kills you on turn 1 or 2. Another 25% he screws you intentionally and tells you he owes you. A third 25% of the time he's got so many other PGAs in the game, he can't actually help you. :)
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11:40 pm, August 2, 2007 CDT
jaquibosox

Leekstep, you accused me (Western Whopper) of being a proxy. However, since you already admitted that your no better than many of the people you have 'uncovered,' i am going to ask you if you have ever considered it possible that your wrong.

Your tactics definitely borrow a page or two from The Prince, but that is not what concerns me, cuz i am absolutely sure that cheating will always go on. I also dont fault people for having the, if you cant beat them, join them philosophy, these are usually the people who need to win like Lindsay Lohan needs crack. I've accepted all of this. But since you were wrong about me (Western Whopper) being a proxy, how many others did you accuse and were wrong about? If you feel you need to police people, do it. But you were pretty annoying doing it, and have lost respect i did have for you at the begginning of July.
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Location:United States |
11:41 pm, August 2, 2007 CDT
jaquibosox

wow, that last sentence sounds like yoda
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Location:United States |
12:09 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
leekstep

I wish I didnt play kdice so much. Sorry for the false accusation. I have found that about 50% of the people i suspect will admit under pressure.

I now think you werent a proxy, but you were playing with confirmed proxy cheaters and you had really odd stats and strategy.

I accused Artimis of being Sinth's proxy because they always showed up 1 game apart (never at the same time to avoid suspicion), then they would always cooperate.

Artimis claimed to be Sinth's brother in law. Well, it looked like a proxy, had odd stats like a proxy, and was always helping Sinth.

After the accusation I never saw any cooperation, and I guess his friendly brother in law that always helps Sinth doesnt count as a PGA...
..cuz Sinth said he only PGA with Rnd.

I asked Sinth why Artimis doesnt count as PGA "Sinth: I figured I was helping him more than hi mme

Well, you can never be certain about anything. Even one of the accounts that Ryan reset for being a proxy (Itchy) was just a friend of the proxy guy. It's really hard to police.
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |
1:23 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
Big Jumblies

I like to use my assets as leverage Unfortunately, I have lost a lot of respect for leekstep as well. His accusations are out of control. The whole idea of online games is to have fun playing and meet new friends. Well, I greeted SodaPop as "the new up and comer" at the beginning of July because I never saw him in the 2000 tables and he was doing really well in the first several games of the month. I was competing with him but had a lot of bad starts and lost my 8th place to him. He never really seemed to go after anyone, just got good starts and made some excellent moves.

I also got to know Sinth, who I really never talked with much in June, probably played against him but never really noticed him much because perhaps he didn't play much or maybe I didn't recognize him as one of the top 25.

Well Once during a chat after a game, Sinth posted his messenger ID because we were all having a friendly chat. I guess in leekstep's eyes this makes me guilty of being his PGA or Proxy, because we had become friends. How unfortunate that kdice is allowing people to become friends. I dont remember playing Risk with kids I was at odds with in school, I played it with my friends.

I have had very few conversations in messenger with Sinth, and NONE of them had anything to do with a game we were playing, it was idle chat. Maybe stuff you wouldn't want to talk about in the public chat.

Sinth also has really screwed up some of my games, and I know I've screwed up some of his, as we were competing with each other. I certainly wouldn't call that a PGA.
Sinth also has excellent Diplomatic skills, which plays a big part in this game.

As for so called "PGA" or "cheating" sometimes this is viewed by leekstep as who you choose to attack first.
If you are split and have the opportunity to connect either through a friend or a stranger. I think a lot of people would pick the stranger OR a person that has a more disrespectful type of game play. (Most of us at the 2000's respect flags and people's positions in the game that they have earned.
Someone who doesn't respect that usually gets cut more.)

Is that cheating?
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Age: 30 |Location:Canada | Website:http://www.bigjumblies.com/
2:10 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
leekstep

I wish I didnt play kdice so much. Big Jumblies:
You happened to be on the list of confirmed Sinth allies on the last report i received (earlier in the month).

If anything, I would have thought of you as OUR ally by the end of the month, when you were using IMs with our team, cooperating with our team, and using our team accounts.

To answer your question, I do think it is cheating. I cheated too. Its fun social game, but I still think its a shame that you must cheat to finish in the top 2.
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |
2:25 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
Cleopatra

love must be sincere It seems that as the "kdice community" we may choose our attitude toward fighting for the first place in the monthly competitions.

1. We may just ignore players / groups of players who want to have first top places using clearly dishonest methods. If it gives them some kind of perverse pleasure - let them have it, and let have our fun from just playing the game. And maybe this is the best solution. But also...

2. We may try to have some kind of control over it, but as the whole "kdice community", not "special police forces".

How for example it may be done?

There may be a special thread in the Forum - "The current leader of the competition", where people may post their
- opinions about the style of playing and statistics of the current leader, or maybe also the vice-leader;
- potential suspicions;
- or posts confirming that according to their authors the leader or vice-leader are honest players.
Of course a separate opinion may be false, but if there are many of them, their have their weight. Especially if posted by players with credibility in the community.
Such bigger transparency would also cause a candidate for the first place, who wants to cheat, seriously consider if he really wants to do that, knowing that he will be a subject of such public scrutiny.

Also the leader or vice-leader may explain there his/her style of playing, his/her understanding of what is honest and what not.

3. Additional thought - maybe we may formulate a very basic "code of ethics" what is cheating and what is not. Doing this we should remember that kdice is not only game of tactics and strategy, but also a social game, and we can't eliminate the "friendship factor" from the game. It is part of the game - but when it becomes cheating? It is not easy to define, I have mine own opinion, which I may share if there is such need, but it is just mine, other people may have a different one.

4. Second additional thought - I haven't played many games with Sinth this month (we just play at different times of the day), but I don't see anything suspicious in the way he got second place and I believe his posts.
Sinth - congratulations!!

- Cleo
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Sex:Female | Location:Poland |
2:52 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
leekstep

I wish I didnt play kdice so much. Cleo, thats a good idea but the "kdice community" just has proven to be an absolute failure at policing the game.

I can remember all the people who didnt believe me when I said there was a cabal of people controlling the game with IMs and PGAs. It wasnt until I infiltrated them and provided the chat logs and video before the "kdice community" finally acknowledged a cabal.

I've had people promise me that WayneRooney was legit. If it wasnt for me personally outing my team, nobody would have known we were cheating.

Someone has to police the game, and I dont want the job anymore.

I suggest Ryan appoints a group of moderators who have the discredtion to adjudicate an account. Perhaps a simple majority vote amongst the moderators can impose some punishment. They can use any criteria they wish, since there isnt a set of rules that comes with the game.

Personally I would vote to adjudicate and account that uses IMs or PGAs. Anything outside of the game board and chat box should not influence the game.
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |
3:42 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
Cleopatra

love must be sincere I may be naive, I admit. And I appreciate the work you've done. But maybe now the "kdice community" - because now it knows how certain mechanisms may work - will be more effective?
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Sex:Female | Location:Poland |
4:26 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
Cleopatra

love must be sincere One more, last question - Leek, is your initial post here a confession of a contrite sinner expecting forgiveness, or an expression of your achievements, for which you expect praise?

You wrote: "It sucks playing a game that you need to cheat if you want to win!"
The game itself for sure cannot be blamed ;)
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Sex:Female | Location:Poland |
4:54 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
jochn

99,9 % of you players, don't know me. I know.
That's because I'm not all that in to social talks over longer periods. I like the game. I play the game. I like to have fun in the chatbox during the game.

Now, if you need to cheat to be top in the monthly rankings then so be it. I don't bother. I play the game. I do it on the lower tables where the 'elite'-players, the ones that go all out for that top-spot, don't play with their main accounts. If they play on the lower tables they play for fun and the it is fun.

So about policing a on-line-game, I'm not really interested. Just play.
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |
8:20 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
X LUCK X

Word. leekstep: we're beheading you, luck

The funniest part is you trying to cover your tracks.

You're about as "anti-cabal" as BCM, rnd, riser, integral, monte, or any of the names you mentioned. You worked with us, you participated in the flagfests, you gave integral first with us, you did everything with us. Now, you're trying to cover your tracks by being the Joseph McCarthy or Hitler (take your pick) of KDice. You're trying to "purify" the KDice community by accusing EVERYONE of being a proxy. In your paranoid mind, I assume it's only you and Mikey and 5000 other robots then. You're focusing your LIFE on trying to cover your ass.

This is rather pathetic, Leek. As a former and fellow "cabal" member, I laugh to see how pathetic you've become. If people don't play the game your way, you accuse them of proxying or try to get them banned.

I only hope that the community forgives you for being the most active member of the cabal, because it was agreed you were by far and away the most active cabal member.

- X LUCK X, fellow cabal member and former best player.
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Sex:Male | Location:Tokelau |
8:32 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
simmersiz

Leek, you are blowing this way out of proportion...

While Kdice does seem to have a history of cheating, I think all that is dying down - and for right now at least - the top players, I'm fairly certain are legit.

Who knows if it will hold up like that - but right now, it looks promising.
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Sex:Male | Location:United States |
8:55 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
rrroll

Leeek...

Powerful you have become, the dark side I sense in you.

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.

Leek, for you, too late it is not...

Cheat not. Play or play not, there is no cheat.
Rank:1199th with $2,244 | Today's Gain: +36% |Playing at:mikalye Table |
9:56 am, August 3, 2007 CDT
playergot_played

A funny conversation from the test server:

Wicked!: I really hope people won't cheat as much anymore...
Wicked!: It's very disappointing.
Wicked!: Very.
*Jammerkid*: yeah games r way faster
Sinth: agreed Wick
Wicked!: I had no idea what happened at all last month.
Wicked!: Any of that behind stuff.
*Jammerkid*: i almost dont want it to leave beta for the cheaters
Wicked!: I feel bad for being mean to leek.
Sinth: Ryan and I have really been trying to think about the cheat and abuse cases
rnd: how do we address sinths 100% proxy cheating

Wicked!: Dunno.

Wicked!: So Sinth, you really did?
Lyle is here
The Dark has left
Sinth: NO
rnd: lol
Wicked!: So what the hell is leek posting?
Sinth: bullshit
Sinth: that's what
rnd: popeycock
Wicked!: I don't even know what to believe anymore.
Sinth: it's easy, wick..
Wicked!: Quiet Adam.
Sinth: just don't believe anything leek says
rnd: lol
RaccoonBalls: bingo
Sinth: that's what
Rank:2890th with $0 | Today's Gain: 0% |Playing at:CameronH Table |