Forum
POST-CABAL ERA
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leekstep wrote
at 9:05 PM, Thursday August 2, 2007 EDT
Early July:
The status of the cabal was uncertain: BCMattEagles and RND were IP blocked by Ryan for impersonating me on the site. Integral, Wishbone, Montecarlo, X LUCK X, XCRobin had phoenixed or retired. That just left three prominent cabal members to worry about: riser and dasfury and Vermont. (BCM and RND managed to play many games this month despite the IP block, I guess they have some knowledge of using a proxy server to alter their IP address). The general population of kdice was happy with me for revealing the unfair tactics used by the cabal: http://aplayr.com/kdice/kdice/forum/topics/integral%20rnd%20montecarlo/. It was easy for me to find people to work with in the game. The remnants of the cabal and their PGAs were trying to sabotage me, but I was playing enough games to overcome some bad finishes. I was in first! Second Week of July Sinth began a heavy campaign of PGAs, private IMs, and playing with proxies (I didn’t notice any simultaneous disconnections or lags to prove if it was Sinth or his teammates that was controlling the proxies). Sinth’s teammates at this time included AlmogBitten, BigJumblies, SodaPop, RND. Riser, BCMatteagles, Dasfury moved into contention also. They were aided by the usual cabal network of PGAs and Riser was using proxies. At this time, I began to mobilize the anti-cabal (now just WayneRooney, Cabbage, Mikeypoo) with some clear goals: BEAT THE CABAL! It only took us a few days to realize that we could utilize the same techniques as the other cheaters and finish with the top 4 spots. Leekstep WayneRooney Mikeypoo and ShamosM (Cabbage) all had accounts over 2250, and we had another 10 or so over 2000. I knew that Cabbage and WayneRooney were capable of proxy cheating, but I don’t know if they did it for the initial run. We began to PGA, especially me and WayneRooney, and we were just doing amazingly well. I assume the games with Wayne didn’t involve proxies, and we were just doing really well. WayneRooney, Mikeypoo, and Cabbage were top 20-25. I was in first! Mid July Dasfury BCM Riser fell behind. Even cabal members RND and XCRobin were supporting me. There was no cabal, there was no competition. People were happy to see a leader who didn’t cheat. I was approaching 250 games, most of them (but not all) without any instant messaging, PGA, or any cheating. I was in first! 15th July An end of month scoring reset seemed like a reality, and pretty much anyone with a good elo considered making a competitive run for the month. Our four team members were all top 25 and we had 4 of the top 5 elos. Most of the cabal members had returned, and it seemed like the end of the month competition was going to be tough. It was obvious that it was easiest for our team to earn points by going on “runsâ€. If we all tried to accumulate points at the same time, the guy with second elo would earn just .33 points per game instead of .5 per game if he were in first, the guy in third would only earn .25 points per game instead of .33, etc. If we were to achieve the goal of all four of us earning 30 points, then we needed to cooperate. Mikey and Wayne and Cabbage worried that after helping me win July, they wouldn’t have an opportunity to win in August. I was mainly interested in keeping the four of us at the top, ahead above the cabal all month… so I agreed to a fair competition amongst the four of us at the end of the month. Since his elo was a few points higher at the time, I told Wayne to go ahead and his his position to earn 25-30 points as quickly as possible. I thought this would discourage other people from competing. Our group worked to get WayneRooney first place as often as possible. Cabbage and I would sit with our high elo main accounts to give Wayne the maximum score available. At times we would even use proxies when we ran into a large group of cheaters. Wayne’s elo kept climbing and his behavior became odd. Wayne was just interested in playing a few games each day and getting his elo higher. He became scared to use his main account unless he had lots of PGAs/proxies sitting with him. Instead of playing lots of games and earning lots of points, Wayne decided to sit selectively. Wayne was still very active in sitting alternate accounts to assist the team, but he would never sit WayneRooney. It became frustrating that WayneRooney was not earning points. We were still concerned about the cabal making a run. Wayne was not only blocking our earning potential with his high elo, he wasn’t able to support us by sitting with his primary account. Despite the fact that we were giving him an elo boost when we sat with our primaries to assist him. I was also frustrated that Wayne was sitting on obviously unbelievable elo (2350+) and unbelievable winning percentages (over 30% firsts). I wanted him to get his 30 points quickly, then work his way back to legitimate-looking numbers. This would also give us an opportunity to earn points. I started to notice a ton of proxies, our team began to implement this tactic in our play. Mikeypoo strongly objected to the use of proxies, but it was a tool that Wayne Cabbage and I would use at times. I reported some use of proxies to Ryan, and he deleted the accounts. I was in first! 18th–20th July Proxy abuse got worse. I began to build a database. It is nearly impossible to identify who is controlling each of the proxy accounts. I could identify the people the proxies sat with most frequently, and the obvious PGA partners for the proxies, but its hard to identify the person controlling each patsy account. I had more games played than anyone, I was in first place. I realized that I didn’t have the time to play this many games each day. The only way I could keep earning points at a high rate would be by using proxies or PGAs and selectively playing games like Riser and WayneRooney. At this point I became unhappy with the game, realizing that I would need to cheat for myself in order to keep pace with the other cheaters. I continued to report obvious proxy abuses, such as Sinth and Riser. I “retired†from the game (reduced my playing time from 15-20 per day to one or two per day). I was in first! 22nd July I reported myself for using proxies in an email to Ryan. I hoped it would convince him to implement the new scoring system, or undertake some other technological changes to fix the game. I was in first! 28th July RND caught WayneRooney using a proxy when he noticed that 5 team accounts were in the room, but the team only had 4 members. It didn’t help that WayneRooney’s best previous month was 15% first and 15% second, and this month he cheated so bad it was 29% first and 21% second. I told RND that I was going to wait until August 2 to release the details of our scheme. 31st July RND makes a post from my Leekstep account releasing some of the details of our scheme because he felt “if there was a chance that Ryan was going to do something it had to be done before the end of the month.†Conclusions: Nobody ever finished top 2 without cheating: heavy use of Private Instant Messaging, Proxies, Lots of PreGameAlliances, etc. PGAs, IMs, Proxies are like steroids in baseball. If they arent testing for it, then you might as well do it. Especially if you want to be a star. The cabal is no worse than the anti-cabal or the Sodapop Gang or anything else. It sucks playing a game that you need to cheat if you want to win! |
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leekstep wrote
at 2:10 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT Big Jumblies:
You happened to be on the list of confirmed Sinth allies on the last report i received (earlier in the month). If anything, I would have thought of you as OUR ally by the end of the month, when you were using IMs with our team, cooperating with our team, and using our team accounts. To answer your question, I do think it is cheating. I cheated too. Its fun social game, but I still think its a shame that you must cheat to finish in the top 2. |
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Cleopatra wrote
at 2:25 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT It seems that as the "kdice community" we may choose our attitude toward fighting for the first place in the monthly competitions.
1. We may just ignore players / groups of players who want to have first top places using clearly dishonest methods. If it gives them some kind of perverse pleasure - let them have it, and let have our fun from just playing the game. And maybe this is the best solution. But also... 2. We may try to have some kind of control over it, but as the whole "kdice community", not "special police forces". How for example it may be done? There may be a special thread in the Forum - "The current leader of the competition", where people may post their - opinions about the style of playing and statistics of the current leader, or maybe also the vice-leader; - potential suspicions; - or posts confirming that according to their authors the leader or vice-leader are honest players. Of course a separate opinion may be false, but if there are many of them, their have their weight. Especially if posted by players with credibility in the community. Such bigger transparency would also cause a candidate for the first place, who wants to cheat, seriously consider if he really wants to do that, knowing that he will be a subject of such public scrutiny. Also the leader or vice-leader may explain there his/her style of playing, his/her understanding of what is honest and what not. 3. Additional thought - maybe we may formulate a very basic "code of ethics" what is cheating and what is not. Doing this we should remember that kdice is not only game of tactics and strategy, but also a social game, and we can't eliminate the "friendship factor" from the game. It is part of the game - but when it becomes cheating? It is not easy to define, I have mine own opinion, which I may share if there is such need, but it is just mine, other people may have a different one. 4. Second additional thought - I haven't played many games with Sinth this month (we just play at different times of the day), but I don't see anything suspicious in the way he got second place and I believe his posts. Sinth - congratulations!! - Cleo |
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leekstep wrote
at 2:52 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT Cleo, thats a good idea but the "kdice community" just has proven to be an absolute failure at policing the game.
I can remember all the people who didnt believe me when I said there was a cabal of people controlling the game with IMs and PGAs. It wasnt until I infiltrated them and provided the chat logs and video before the "kdice community" finally acknowledged a cabal. I've had people promise me that WayneRooney was legit. If it wasnt for me personally outing my team, nobody would have known we were cheating. Someone has to police the game, and I dont want the job anymore. I suggest Ryan appoints a group of moderators who have the discredtion to adjudicate an account. Perhaps a simple majority vote amongst the moderators can impose some punishment. They can use any criteria they wish, since there isnt a set of rules that comes with the game. Personally I would vote to adjudicate and account that uses IMs or PGAs. Anything outside of the game board and chat box should not influence the game. |
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Cleopatra wrote
at 3:42 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT I may be naive, I admit. And I appreciate the work you've done. But maybe now the "kdice community" - because now it knows how certain mechanisms may work - will be more effective?
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Cleopatra wrote
at 4:26 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT One more, last question - Leek, is your initial post here a confession of a contrite sinner expecting forgiveness, or an expression of your achievements, for which you expect praise?
You wrote: "It sucks playing a game that you need to cheat if you want to win!" The game itself for sure cannot be blamed ;) |
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jochn wrote
at 4:54 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT 99,9 % of you players, don't know me. I know.
That's because I'm not all that in to social talks over longer periods. I like the game. I play the game. I like to have fun in the chatbox during the game. Now, if you need to cheat to be top in the monthly rankings then so be it. I don't bother. I play the game. I do it on the lower tables where the 'elite'-players, the ones that go all out for that top-spot, don't play with their main accounts. If they play on the lower tables they play for fun and the it is fun. So about policing a on-line-game, I'm not really interested. Just play. |
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X LUCK X wrote
at 8:20 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT leekstep: we're beheading you, luck
The funniest part is you trying to cover your tracks. You're about as "anti-cabal" as BCM, rnd, riser, integral, monte, or any of the names you mentioned. You worked with us, you participated in the flagfests, you gave integral first with us, you did everything with us. Now, you're trying to cover your tracks by being the Joseph McCarthy or Hitler (take your pick) of KDice. You're trying to "purify" the KDice community by accusing EVERYONE of being a proxy. In your paranoid mind, I assume it's only you and Mikey and 5000 other robots then. You're focusing your LIFE on trying to cover your ass. This is rather pathetic, Leek. As a former and fellow "cabal" member, I laugh to see how pathetic you've become. If people don't play the game your way, you accuse them of proxying or try to get them banned. I only hope that the community forgives you for being the most active member of the cabal, because it was agreed you were by far and away the most active cabal member. - X LUCK X, fellow cabal member and former best player. |
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simmersiz wrote
at 8:32 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT Leek, you are blowing this way out of proportion...
While Kdice does seem to have a history of cheating, I think all that is dying down - and for right now at least - the top players, I'm fairly certain are legit. Who knows if it will hold up like that - but right now, it looks promising. |
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rrroll wrote
at 8:55 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT Leeek...
Powerful you have become, the dark side I sense in you. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will. Leek, for you, too late it is not... Cheat not. Play or play not, there is no cheat. |
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playergot_played wrote
at 9:56 AM, Friday August 3, 2007 EDT A funny conversation from the test server:
Wicked!: I really hope people won't cheat as much anymore... Wicked!: It's very disappointing. Wicked!: Very. *Jammerkid*: yeah games r way faster Sinth: agreed Wick Wicked!: I had no idea what happened at all last month. Wicked!: Any of that behind stuff. *Jammerkid*: i almost dont want it to leave beta for the cheaters Wicked!: I feel bad for being mean to leek. Sinth: Ryan and I have really been trying to think about the cheat and abuse cases rnd: how do we address sinths 100% proxy cheating Wicked!: Dunno. Wicked!: So Sinth, you really did? Lyle is here The Dark has left Sinth: NO rnd: lol Wicked!: So what the hell is leek posting? Sinth: bullshit Sinth: that's what rnd: popeycock Wicked!: I don't even know what to believe anymore. Sinth: it's easy, wick.. Wicked!: Quiet Adam. Sinth: just don't believe anything leek says rnd: lol RaccoonBalls: bingo Sinth: that's what |