Wow, this thread is insane. Some comments in no particular order.

1) Of the idents you guys have listed (grandgnu, azala, Calypso, [ (( RED )) | >, Ax Cx, Faye, Max22 -- the only ones I even remember playing are azala and grandgnu, possibly Ax Cx a few weeks back but not lately.

2) I'd be kinda shocked if azala and grandgnu were the same person; azala seems to go out of his way to attack me, while grandgnu usually seems friendly. I guess that could be some kinda strategy, but I dunno, seems a little farfetched.

3) SodaPop is pretty funny and cool when he's not over-caffeinated, but we're not anything like PGAs. At least half the time we're killing each other, sometimes we ally in game, other times we just do our own thing. If he's got a "gang" I don't know anything about that.

4) The context of my publically mentioning my gmail address was that Robin and Rooney wanted to swap IM information and were going to go an empty table to do it. I didn't want them to leave, because that would have meant they would miss the next game, and I wanted some of Rooney's ELO. :) So I was making the point that they might as well just trade IM information publicly (which they then did).

5) I'm sad to hear that leekstep == Happy &heart; because I saw Happy fly off the handle accusing the other night someone of being a proxy based on the fact that they had a weird TAPL or something like that. It was really uncool the way in which Happy attacked the guy, especially with no evidence except win stats. What's funny is that I consider leek a friend, but had no idea all those accounts were his alts.

Sinth:

A wierd TAPL?

I didn't know the TAPL was getting so much respect.

For the benefit of all sides, I will make some comments about the TAPL.

1. The TAPL of players who have played less than 35 games does not have much weight. In my reports, I apply Yate's Correction to the percentages of TAPLers who have played less than 35 games.

2. For even as many as 70 games, there can be enough lumpiness in the percentages that the TAPL can be suspect.

3. The TAPL measures ALL skills, including negative skill and pga. A high TAPL could mean cheating, but it could mean good play.

4. The best way to identify players as possible pga's is to check their percentage profiles. Pga's should have a greater percentage of 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, and 7ths than would be expected among 2000+ players. In this case where seven players are accused of being proxy shadows (whatever that is) and they always play together, the game-weighted average of their percentages MUST be 14-14-14-14-14-14-14, and in addition, the number of games they play must be the same. So somebody do some checking.

why was Disasterz called a cheater?

Any account with 1%-9% first place finishes at the 2k tables is probably not trying to win games.

When this account happens to play with riser all the time and help him, I became suspicious of PGA.

When this account legs when riser lags, and disconnects exactly when riser disconnects, its easy to see they are one person controlling both accounts.

I usually start noticing cheaters by the odd statistics in general, then I watch who they play with the most, then I look for mechanical evidence.

People are getting smarter at avoiding detection. Riser has been playing his proxy accounts as real ones, building credibility.

Even the proxy account azala is trying to build credibility while admitting some of his accounts are probably proxies.

SodaPop Gang.. hehe


whose in the Gang? I want names

I'd like to join, sir

Just to (hopefully) clear up some tension here....azala, grandgnu, sodapop, sinth, AxCx, max22 are NOT a part of any pgas.

I think in that instance they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. I believe there were about 14 watchers or something in one 2k game, so I suggested we go to another table...everyone left and went back when we didn't have enough players.

Oh god azala/calyspo/grandgnu/axcx or whatver your name is, you might have been able to get away with convincing people that one of your accounts was real, like azala for example.

Like maybe azala just ahppened to leave the room at the same instant as the 6 other accounts - THREE DIFFERENT TIMES.

OK, maybe like some idiot would think it was coincidence. But now you are trying to make calypso also seem legitimate? how ridiculous!

The following accounts are 100% proxy cheaters without any doubt:
Riser, Riser2, Sinth, Azala, AxCx, GameofDice, Artimis, Grandgnu, Calypso, Faye, Red, Max22, Gruntie, Muffin Man

People who seem to always be playing with proxies and are somehow related to them but I dont have direct proof:
SodaPop, pUPAS, Dime, Saimen, Sanjin, Medgar, Disasterz

Also the following are proxes but it looks like Ryan already reset them:
captain barbosa, hk, rosh, vicious, spartan300, itchy, Zaibatsu, seigs, 15000account

What makes you so suspicious of them specifically?
SodaPop, pUPAS, Dime, Saimen, Sanjin, Medgar, Disasterz