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Neorealism - On Fear And Love - by FUNK.
_rnd wrote
at 11:16 PM, Monday April 23, 2007 EDT
Two points for discussion for whomever is interested: Being an International Relations Graduate student, I have had occasion to discuss during games on chat with other like-minded polisci geeks the systemic microcosm that kdice best represents. Although multiple opinions exist, the best representation appears to be Kenneth Waltz' neorealist paradigm (see Theory of International Politics, 1979) which predicts that within an anarchic, self-help, and security-driven structure, "like" states will seek to balance each other and choose defection over cooperation--in the kdice world, a) this explains the rather large outcome of 1-2 truces and 2 big powers picking off smaller ones and being left to fight it out; and b) that other exongenous factors such as PGAs, oddly shaped geography, etc. are responsible for the exception to the rule, that being multipolarity, where 3 or 4 relatively even powers remain to determine the outcome. Was wondering if anyone strongly agreed or disagreed with the above?

The second point: we often have IR undergrads read Machiavelli as one of their first texts. Among many acute observations, ol' Niccolo has the following to offer in the Prince.
On love and fear
This gives rise to an argument: whether it is better to be loved than feared, or the opposite. The answer is that one would like to be both, but since it is difficult to combine the two it is much safer to be feared than loved, if one of the two has to make way. For generally speaking, one can say the following about men: they are ungrateful, inconsistent, feigners and dissimulators, avoiders of danger, eager for gain, and whilst it profits them they are all yours. They will offer you their blood, their property, their life and their offspring when your need for them is remote. But when your needs are pressing, they turn away. The prince who depends entirely on their words perishes when he finds he has not taken any other precautions. This is because friendships purchased with money and not by greatness and nobility of spirit are paid for, but not collected, and when you need them they cannot be used. Men are less worried about harming somebody who makes himself loved than someone who makes himself feared, for love is held by a chain of obligation which, since men are bad, is broken at every opportunity for personal gain. Fear, on the other hand, is maintained by a dread of punishment which will never desert you.

The questions that arise from this are a)on the kdice board, is your general strategy one where you seek to be loved or feared? b) which do you feel works best? c) although we have discussed on a prior thread who we believe is the "best" kdice player, who would you say you most fear and who do you most love?

If the answer to c is the same person, I would say unequivocably that this is the best kdice player. But for my money I'd have to go with Grun for most feared (and there is nothing normative about this statement, i.e., doesn't imply that he in some way plays "mean", but that his style of play raises fear in others because he rarely truces, attempts disadvantaged attacks if pressed, and often thinks outside the box from the general thinking on safe expansion and racing for the tranquility of corners). For loved, I would have to say Hatty--the "lay off the penguin rule notwithstandng, lol--I've played with him many times, and as a native English speaker and non-German have held no prior affinity towards him. At least from my experience, if he kills you, he does it with subtlety, and I have seen on more than one occasion him flag for a second if he feels his opponent has played the better strategic game even if he has a shot at the top spot.

* This has been reposted to remove the slash in the title of the original post

[Editorial Liberty: SECRETLY, RND IS MY MOST FEARED AND LOVED KDICER, THOUGH.]

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Grunvagr wrote
at 9:06 PM, Tuesday April 24, 2007 EDT
1- Everything is relative to the environment is it in. I play differently when moving up from 1500 tables than I do when at the top tables. 1/2 truces are common, almost the norm in the 1500 tables - and honestly, WHY NOT engage in them to progress to the 1600 /1700s. At that point, again, know your surroundings and understand that stuff is frowned upon - and more importantly, you will likely play against those players again, often, or even at the top tables later... no need to be making people remember you as something they want to get back at. At the top tables, 1/2 trucing is simply not tolerated - when it happens, the points you gain are not worth the stigma you'll get that will carry on game after game since people talk when ratings matter that much to them. Therefore, understanding the table 'mentality' or expectations of what is acceptable and what is not is more critical than all those factors funk listed individually, as the table's mindset on what 'the right way to play' impacts how people view each action you take on the lines of 1/2 trucing / picking weaklings then duking it out, etc.

2- a) tis better to be feared than loved for one reason, people who love you will kill you anyway but type 'sorry' in a chatbox. This does not help you win games. People who fear you will be hesitant to take a critical 8v7 or 6v5 for fear of incurring your wrath, thus fear helps you win games by stemming potential attacks out of the paralyzing nature of fear itself.

b) feared > loved
c) I most fear Comik because he was terrifying. It wasn't just the way he wisely maneuvered his stack, but the manner in which he manipulated people by subtle or sometimes outwardly blatant signs of what to do through suggestions. He's one of the best kdice players in khistory, and I stole many of his tactics when I used to compete with him.

most loved? heh, im a ksucker for the kwomenz, stacy, sarahxxx, the other sarah... and of course ♥

There is a fine line one might tread where they can be loved and feared. This is a wondrous art, where others are paralyzed to not 5v4 or 4v3 you early on out of 'love' for you and then fear you after they essentially allow you to grow into a massive empire.

Sometimes though, the best thing to be, is neither. To be ignored is a wondrous thing in kdice. Beware an ignored player with a few lands, they are apt to win the whole thing. For as much as fear and love are useful, to be ignored is to be permitted a chance to grow. And an unchallenged foe is a menacing one. Since it is now almost impossible for people to ignore me due to the damn fan-mail spam on the forums... sigh...


I play in a fierce and tactical manner. I compete to win the game. I do not yield lightly, yet when I give my word, I am steadfast and will always honor it. I respect my opponents, though in a way that does not ignore the fact that we are all at war, ultimately.

I win, I lose, but regardless, I dominate. A 7th that loses 15 points and a first that gains 40, a 5th that loses 6 points and a 3rd that gains 20, these are the subtle ways in which one grows in points, etc. Great win %'s dont mean what they used to be, it is all about walking away with the most you can.

Lastly, I play for fun.

And this, is the most terrifying thing of all!!!

integraI wrote
at 4:26 PM, Tuesday August 18, 2009 EDT
lol at my post thinking grun was good.
XCBatman wrote
at 10:24 AM, Wednesday August 19, 2009 EDT
I agree with integral.
JDizzle787 wrote
at 12:27 PM, Wednesday August 19, 2009 EDT
I don't care... or do I since I took the time to post in this thread?... tune in next week to see.
no_moniker wrote
at 2:27 PM, Wednesday August 19, 2009 EDT
This thread proves the old school really was better. Now its all just snark.
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