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Common misconceptions about the current flagging system.
Posted By: Vermont at 9:20 AM, Wednesday November 19, 2014 EST
I've noticed that a good deal of the frustration with the game and with other players is consistently due to misunderstandings of the flagging system. This becomes pretty evident when you take a look at players' review pages and a large majority of the negative, and even positive comments, deal with flagging.

The initial flagging system was introduced solely as a way to help the game end faster. It was a simple checkbox, not related to place. When all players other than the one in first checked this box the game would end and each player would receive place based on their current position.

Incidentally, this system led to 'ninja flagging,' where a player would wait for everyone else to have their flag up and then quickly over-expand and then flag themselves, ending the game. They would then finish much higher than they should have otherwise. This led to some fun games as people would watch and try to respond, but it also cause some frustration. Anyone who uses 'ninja flagging' in regards to the current system is using the term incorrectly.

I bring this up because the current flagging system was introduced specifically to address the ninja flagging 'problem.' Some players that play in both systems find the old system preferable, some do not. To each their own; I don't think Ryan will be changing it back anytime soon.

The issue we have now is that flags are grossly misunderstood. You see people all the time expecting that when their flag is up they will not be attacked and thus they feel you did not "honor" or "respect" their flag if you attack them. This completely erroneous assumption has lead to a great deal of complaining, frustration, and negative review leaving.

Here are the flagging facts:
1. If you flag to someone, they have the complete right to still attack you, and often should. There is nothing 'dishonorable' about it. They may need to expand to fight for a higher position and your flag should not stop them from expanding to do so. They may want to earn more dom points - it is their right to do so as they have clearly earned a stronger position. Flags are ONLY there to help the game end faster; they are not magic invincibility potions to protect you when you otherwise should die.

2. People who over-expand and then throw up a flag should frequently be attacked. Just because you put up a flag does not mean that you can foolishly over-expand and leave little stacks lying about and expect to keep them. Again, a flag is not a magic invincibility potion that protects you from attack - it's just there to help the game end faster. You'll often see people over expand recklessly throw up a flag and have it 'respected' and thus earning a position higher than they should have gotten. Good strategy on their part if they think they can get away with it, but poor form on the other players' part to let them do so. Keep in mind that that over-expanding player is taking dominance points away from the other players when they do this as well; frequently from the person who is in the best position to take their smaller stacks.

3. An early flag is essentially a truce offer. If a player verbally flags in round two, it's a safe assumption that those two players are effectively truced and will not be hindering each other's play. The other players on the board need to actively counter this or will almost always end up losing to these two players. This is not very different from being observant and countering two players who says things like "I'm cool" or "how about we be friendly." If you don't fight this behavior when possible, those players will win. You will see some people that ignore or even purposefully attack early verbal flags. This is a reasonable solution to this problem. They're probably flagging early because they are weak, so take the land and dominance points if you are in a position to do so.

In review:
Flagging Rule #1 - Flagging to someone does not mean they cannot and often should not attack you.

Flagging Rule #2 - Players who recklessly over-expand and then flag for defense should often be attacked.

Flagging Rule #3 - An early verbal flag is often an effective truce offer.

I will state the most important part again: flagging was only introduced to help the game end faster. Your flag DOES NOT prevent you from being attacked - it is not what it was designed to do.

« First ‹ Previous Replies 211 - 220 of 220
Juba wrote
at 7:23 AM, Friday March 1, 2013 EST
I have a question about the flagging system. if red flags to green and two turns later blue flags green as well, does that mean he also flags red. after many disvoussens about it i still think thats not the case. Lets say blue and red are equally strong but neither of them can take on green, both wonna fight for 2nd. flagging to the obvious winner shouldnt effect the fight for 2nd. if flagging works like a line and if u flag ur the last one in it it takes away a substantioal part of the game.
MrDolomite wrote
at 9:24 AM, Saturday March 16, 2013 EDT
Arguing about flags is like wrestling a girl. Even if you win, you are a loser.
Vermont wrote
at 12:26 PM, Monday July 8, 2013 EDT
I just re-read all of these comments. That's just depressing.
grandparocker wrote
at 9:07 AM, Saturday July 20, 2013 EDT
Hello Vermont,

I don't know if smb. already asked it cause I haven't read all comments, but if I read your post a question comes to mind?

Why dont implement Domination from 100 tables upwards? Wouldn't that solve the problem naturally? Because with the Domination active, people would have an appeal not to let the things you described.
Or does reality checked out otherwise?

Sorry if that is an "old hat", but I don't read the forum regulary.

grandparocker
integral wrote
at 12:26 PM, Friday September 26, 2014 EDT
bump
probabler wrote
at 11:05 AM, Sunday November 9, 2014 EST
i wrote my previous post to clarify simple situation.
(i often meet with wrong understanding of that /again/ simple situation)

+ teaching rules is not about philosophying
its about making things simple
benjamin barker wrote
at 12:58 AM, Sunday November 30, 2014 EST
I don't think this post really reflects the actual etiquette and expectations that are happening out there at the tables, at least not in the games I am playing in.
greeen wrote
at 9:50 PM, Sunday October 1, 2017 EDT
@vermont: did you spend your time writing this? sad. hope you're well.
Monsanto wrote
at 5:08 PM, Monday January 4, 2021 EST
bump
Gummitarsan wrote
at 9:54 AM, Saturday May 14, 2022 EDT
Good show sir
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