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What to do when fighting for 2nd puts you in 1st?
Eggywootah wrote
at 1:54 PM, Friday December 19, 2008 EST
People get offended when this happens. It's happened to me and I was annoyed. I recently did it so someone and everyone else was pissed. But I've been told "What you did was wrong" which I don't think is the case. I don't think there should be any assurances to your position unless you can actually hold it. If you are in first, you should be able to attack players (flagged or not) in order to keep your position of first. If you are fighting for second and you can manage to take first, why shouldn't you be able to?

Replies 1 - 9 of 9
lesplaydices wrote
at 2:21 PM, Friday December 19, 2008 EST
Truce whom ever you were fighting with and take first.
Avarice wrote
at 2:32 PM, Friday December 19, 2008 EST
There are no rules to how to play the game except to not cheat. Get it, that should help.
the full monte wrote
at 3:17 PM, Friday December 19, 2008 EST
ill attempt to fill the Vermont role of nonsarcastic, honestly-just-trying-to-help answer to this.

if you are in 1st, and you allow two people to fight for 2nd, this is what you should do:

1) if someone has 2nd for over a turn, and they do not flag 2nd, then you gently warn them that if they dont flag before your next turn, then you will attack them. if they dont flag 2nd for over a turn (i.e. you know that they have a flagbox with 2nd next to it), then the obvious logic is that they are going to fight you for 1st afterwards. which is rude, since you have shown them mercy to let them fight for 2nd instead of pwning their ass earlier. make sure to gently then threateningly insist that both players flag 2nd as soon as possible, or else you will attack them.

here is where opinions differ
2a) if you dont care about points, and are in an amiable mood. as soon as one of them beats down the other enough to steal your badge (i.e. it says youre in 2nd, even though youll still get 1st in the end due to flags), you still dont interfere. the logic is, if you had interfered in the first place, then the dude in 2nd wouldve tried to truce the guy in 3rd, and they wouldve beaten you down until you flagged for 3rd. so you owe it to them to let them have a clean fight, which includes taking the dom involved in their territories.

2b) if you are a point fanatic, or in a pissy mood from earlier unluckiness during the day. like hell are you going to sit by and watch others take your 1st place dom, while you get shafted with a 1st place finish with 2nd place dom, when you should have a 1st finish with the 1st dom that should come along with it. in this case, 2nd/3rd will bitch because you are interfering with their fight. the fairest way to interfere seems to be taking 1 from each of them at a time. NOT attacking each one at a time, which might result in taking 5/5 terrs from one unlucky guy, while taking 0/5 from the lucky dude. you want their fight to be decided by their rolls against each other, not against you. also, you are not allowed to cut them while you nibble at them. remember, this can get them pissy at you, and might trigger them to decide in their frustration to truce each other and take down the farmer. so you should generally only do this if you have +32 stocked up, and they dont have any + dice since they are fighting each other.

basically, this is an open debate in the kdice community. one side says, 1st place deserves 1st dom, the other side says, 1st place got 1st because we flagged to him and didnt truce against him, so we deserve to have a fight for 2nd that is untouched by 1st.

i find that most people make the decision between 2a and 2b based on how good their day is going. if theyre on a hot streak, and happy and laidback, they choose to not interfere and lose up to several hundred in dom. however, if theyre in the middle of a terrible streak on kdice, then theyre pretty crabby, and cant stand the idea of watching that few hundred of dom leak out of their grasp.
Orlafede wrote
at 3:52 PM, Friday December 19, 2008 EST
ask for flag
Eggywootah wrote
at 5:17 PM, Friday December 19, 2008 EST
This discussion seems to me to illustrate the problem with the way this game has evolved:

One guys says "there's no rules except to not cheat." Which is true, right? Except you risk being seen as an AHole and get yelled at if you play with this attitude.

But the other guys gives a long elaborate explanation of Flagging Protocol, which is the way many people understand the game. Except, what are these unspoken rules and this negotiating bs without even putting up a fight?

The game is sort of confusing. I remember once I played this one FPS called mmm Nexus or something like that. Anyway, there were certain abilities that people didn't use because everyone else would bitch you out if you did. But they were in the game!

Perhaps one of the problems is that the flag system means different things to different people. It's not exactly clear to me what it shows. And really, that's all it does, is show something which may or may not be true. It doesn't affect anything concrete in the game. But people act like it makes them untouchable and are so righteously offended if you Disrespect the Flag. I dunno. Maybe there should be more elaborate ways to communicate within the game, or at least a more complex chat system, or even a bigger chat bar, since negotiating seems to be such an important aspect of the game in the end.

To boil that down: the game system is simpler than what actually happens in the game and, in my opinion, makes the resolution of the games very shaky. But what is there to do about it?
Vermont wrote
at 7:37 PM, Friday December 19, 2008 EST
You could ask the creator of the game to actually post a list of rules.

Something like this, perhaps:
http://www.conquerclub.com/public.php?mode=rules
nuflis wrote
at 2:12 AM, Saturday December 20, 2008 EST
@ biteme: you can play without backbone, trust me.
Carlisle wrote
at 3:53 AM, Sunday December 21, 2008 EST
to be decent after you killed the other player just sit out, so that you dont piss anybody off.
Louis Cypher wrote
at 12:22 PM, Sunday December 21, 2008 EST
Have the original leader kill you and flag 2nd of course.

But then, this will hardly ever happen. Most will take 1st and fuck the original leader to complain later that they can't fight for position. If I was the leader I would have started attacking you when you are 2nd and don't flag.
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