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thoughts on my first all-human tourney experience
montecarlo wrote
at 9:58 AM, Tuesday November 4, 2008 EST
1) les was right.
we all used to chuckle at les's idea post about 'Lying'. well, it turns out that it's an even stronger strategy in tourneys. the negative to lying in normal games is that someone will pge you for awhile afterwards. well, in tourneys, you lie to someone to make sure they dont kill you early, then you kill them later in the game... and next game, when they will pge destroy you... well... they arent even at your table. there is no chance for revenge. so the downside of lying is decreased. and, no, i didnt exploit this strategy. i got exploited by Shevar. he was dead in round 2 because i wouldve destroyed him, except he said he would flag 2nd. so i left him alive, because id rather have a strong ally and an easy 1st. problem was that as soon as he built up, he never flagged 2nd, and then ended up giving me 2nd instead. i was never able to get revenge. nice lie, shev. good call, les.

2) the points system needs to be tweaked. i understand that no one wants to lose out of the tourney after one round, which is why the max loss for 7th in round 1 is -100, and you start with 150. yay, we all get to play at least twice. however, this is how my tourney went: 1st, 2nd, 2nd in the first three rounds, giving me 4th overall. in round 4, i get an unlucky start, lose a 3v2 for a connect, and then hello! if i get 7th, i am out of the tourney. from 4th overall to kicked out. but thats ok, i outsurvived someone else, so i was going to get 6th. too bad, still would lose all my points and get kicked out. but thats ok, i outsurvived someone else, so i got 5th. too bad, i still lost all of my points and got kicked out. i just dont like the idea that we protect everyone from one bad start resulting in instadeath from tourney in round 1... but then you can get 1st, 2nd, 2nd... and then 1 bad start (hell, even a slightly bad start resulting in a 5th), will instantly kick you out of the tourney. that was sad. no chance for a comeback.

3) that damn bug needs to be fixed. it seems that it happens at least once per tourney round on some random table. the invisible island bug, where all you can do is hope that the guy that has it will lag out, otherwise he holds the entire tourney at bay by not flagging, and he can easily be an ass and take 1st. mmmiiijjj did it in the tourney i was in, and it was goddamn frustrating to sit in his gallery and watch for 20 minutes while he just sat there and wouldnt flag.

4) there is a possible loophole when it gets down to 2 tables, perhaps. table #2 can all decide to take the slowest turns possible. this results in table 1's game going faster (at normal pace), and 7th - 4th at table 1 getting kicked out of the tourney before anyone at table 2, so it inflates the results of table 2 players. perhaps just change it so that results dont get tabulated for any tables until the last game finishes in each round of play. but then again, perhaps none of this matters, if points are only distributed to the top 5 players of each tourney (i dont know the specifics of how points are divided up).

anyways, thats my $0.02. great experience, i doubt i will play many regular games any more, now that tourneys are available at 8am (est). thanks for implementing this, Ryan.

Replies 1 - 10 of 10
Kehoe wrote
at 10:16 AM, Tuesday November 4, 2008 EST
Oh monte. You know you totally would of pulled the same move Shev did.
1.234.56775 wrote
at 10:30 AM, Tuesday November 4, 2008 EST
I have to agree with the placing, win 2 in a row come 5th the next your out that does suck, same thing happened to me
Shevar wrote
at 12:58 PM, Tuesday November 4, 2008 EST
i agree completely with all four points made.

in detail

1) when i said it, i really meant it. but then i decided to be an ass and take the opportunity. 2nd? fine. 1st? even better! screw the guy who spared me i wanna win this shit.
now that my reputation is ruined i suggest we play anonymous tourneys from this moment on.

2) the good thing about this problem is that the tourneys dont last forever. unless...

3) a coincidence of a bug and a mentally retarded fuckhead

4) didnt observe that closely, but monte is usually right.
Embair wrote
at 2:56 PM, Tuesday November 4, 2008 EST
Ad 1)
I played on 3 tournaments, and on 2 of them i was eliminated after a blatant backstab from "ally", so i cant agree with you more on this one. I think it is also connected to (2) - the constant pressure of being kicked from tourny after a single lose makes people fight more ruthless for a good place.

Ad 2)
I hoped tournaments will bring in more skill-dependent results - because your score income will not be based on one random game any more, but on your performance in series of games, so that you wont be rewarded for one lucky start or punished for a terrible one. Unfortunately the current scoring system makes tourneys even more luck-dependent than single game. A 7th or 6th in almost any game can get you killed, while the diferrences between 1st and 4nd are small (whats the difference between +500 and +0 pts. if the next game is on 2500 table...). Therefore especially in the earlier rounds, all that matters is to get 4th or better. Its not about getting as much good places as possible, but more about not getting a single really bad place (5th or lower), as that is pretty often instant death.

The scoring as it is sure makes the tournament dramatic to the last moment, it kinda resembles play-off. But i think it would be interesting also to have a league-style tournaments, when table levels would be fixed and the tournament would have limited number of rounds (instead of waiting for last man standing). Given this, the games could be even arranged so that every player in the tourny plays with every other a given number of times. That would be a less thrilling but more fair type of tournament. Although, when table levels were fixed, the point differences between participants would start to really matter and in later stages, every player could estimate like "ok, i can still beat those two guys above me. But theres no point in trying to kill this guy as he's already way above/below me in the table" - im not sure if that would be good for the game.
magenta_majors wrote
at 7:46 PM, Tuesday November 4, 2008 EST
Speaking of Les...where'd he go?
kam|k2 wrote
at 8:07 PM, Tuesday November 4, 2008 EST
hey, i was 2nd in the tourny, 9 ppl left, then i got a lag and lost all... shiny... -_-

i totally agree on point 2 monte.
Embair wrote
at 12:07 AM, Wednesday November 5, 2008 EST
I focused more on watching the scores last tourny and have to correct my previous statement. 4th to 7th really gets exactly the same (strongly negative) score - so the playoff goes like "how many games you can play without being worse then 3rd".
lesplaydices wrote
at 9:27 PM, Friday November 7, 2008 EST
Les is for the most part always right.
Linssen wrote
at 12:12 AM, Saturday November 8, 2008 EST
Point 2 is dead on.

The ante needs to increase slower.
Danny_DCB wrote
at 12:49 PM, Saturday November 8, 2008 EST
[bitchmode]Agreed on the point system. I was playing the 100 daily and I got 2nd in first two games, 4th in my third game (6 players total) and bam, I'm left with 34 points. I got knocked out after 5 games with 1 first, 2 seconds and 2 fourths and it was good enough only for 14th place out of 49. Dunno, maybe it was deserved but I don't feel it was.[/bitchmode]
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