Forum
Flagging, Good for the game?
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Cirquedaddy wrote
at 2:46 AM, Thursday July 31, 2008 EDT
I would like to post some thoughts on Players flagging and whether or not it advances the gameplay of KDice.
Flagging as it is used by most players now is a tactic that players use primarily to try and protect oneself and a distantly second to cement alliances. Im my experience it has almost always allowed the player that becomes the strongest by the middle rounds the assurance of a win as there is no incentive to attack the stronger player by secondary players to check his progress as often happens in other map domination games like Risk. Im my view it severly limits the gameplay experience and strategic value of this game. As often seems to happen the player who can corner or coalece his force quickest builds upon that lead while the Secondary Players fight amongst themselves for a second or third place finish with no incentive to check the leader. All the while the secondary players are hoping the leader does not move in an aggresive direction twards them so they can cement a high finish. I have seen way too many times a player that is sitting in a stong position in second place on the weak flank of the Leading player only to flag second and sit the whole game waiting for the First player to mop up the remaining places and territories instead of pressing that early advantage and leveling his odds and that of the players who might have not had an advantageous start. I cant say I blame that second place player because there is absolutly no reward for an attempt to try and dominate the map and win the game when he will guarentee himself points to sit quietly. In a game which the supposed goal is to try and conquer the whole map, why is there a gamplay device that more often than not prevents players from acting in that interest at all? Thanks and Lucky Die, Cirquedaddy |
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Ryan wrote
at 10:36 AM, Thursday July 31, 2008 EDT Mostly basically the game needs a device to end early. It's common in Risk to reach a point where you know one person will win no matter what and it doesn't make sense to play things out - this is why we need flags.
I don't think the issue is the flags. I think its motivations. The reason people flag second now isn't because they want the game to end, but it's because they don't want to risk losing points in 6/7th - which isn't the real intent of flags. A rule was recently added that doesn't allow flags until later rounds, i think 2nd flag is round 8 - maybe this should be longer. I think its about time that we should think again about how points are rewarded in a game since this has the biggest effect on motivations. What if dominance had a greater effect? (this is where you receive points for maintaining a large territory size). People may be more reluctant to flag if their dominance score is still low. I think there needs to be a lot of thought put into this. |
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jubajuba wrote
at 12:17 PM, Friday August 1, 2008 EDT I'm rather new here and am glad I found this thread about flags.
I'm confused. The FAQ indicates that flags are way of indicating to other (stronger position) players that you aren't going to attack and want to settle for your current position. This I understand. But the other players are under no obligation to NOT attack a flagged player, right? If a player who's in a week position and whose land will help me, decides to flag, why does he get angry when I attack him. And why do I see see so many complaints about players not "honoring" other people's flags. It seems like some players are hiding behind a flag, or trying to use it to enforce a truce. But in a game of conquest, where land is power, it makes total sense to gobble another player's territory, even if (especially if) they're no being aggressive. What I call being aggressive and seizing the advantage, others are calling unfair. What are your thoughts? |
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Ryan wrote
at 12:40 PM, Friday August 1, 2008 EDT Basically if someone flags its up to the players above him to honor it. It's an act of aggression to players below - so players below should still take advantage of weak territories.
The people who complain ARE hiding behind the flag and just trying to convince you not to attack. Even if you're ahead of someone who flags you still don't have to honor a bad flag - but typically flags help higher players. |
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Bone-Roller wrote
at 12:47 PM, Friday August 1, 2008 EDT As has been said many times before, enable flagging for any position at or below your current rank, so that players can surrender and not be trapped in a game with no upside.
Base dominance and placement on number of dice possessed, not number of lands. |
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Ripp Off wrote
at 12:48 PM, Friday August 1, 2008 EDT Dear ryan..thnx for the game
BUT... the flags ruin the game. It should be man against man Alot of the time..people flag with only 2 pieces of land.. somebody who [played well and got lots more is all of a sudden attacked by everybody.. so player with onlyy 2 piece of land wins..because he flagged? i dont get it...With the flag system you prefend better players from winning..and pussies get helped alot by just flagging Theres no skill needed to push flag button. Make a game withput flag opportunity..Would be alot better. thnx anyway |
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jurgen wrote
at 12:53 PM, Friday August 1, 2008 EDT Ryan, ability to flag 2nd shouldn't only depend on the number of rounds. Maybe it's difficult to code or to get a good formula or whatever but I think it would make sense if the ability to flag 2nd (or even 3rd for that matter) would also depend on the number of dice 1st and second have.
My point: If 1st has 44 dice and 2nd has 40 dice, why should 2nd be thinking about flagging. I know situations exist such as having weak defense front where the number of dice for 2nd can drop quickly but still... I have seen players flag 2nd with more dice (but less lands) than first. Maybe only allow flags (except to flag last) until 1st has 35 or 40% of the dice? Another flagging thing: sometimes 6th and 7th are really close and 6th is losing plenty of dom points because 7th refuses to flag. If 6 and 7 are very close (to be determined what close is), maybe allow 6th to surrender immediately as well. It would speed up the pointless 6/7 outlive battles |
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nazlfrag wrote
at 2:35 PM, Friday August 1, 2008 EDT There's a simple but harsh fix, only reward 1st place and have all others lose points.
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alcaras wrote
at 3:37 PM, Friday August 1, 2008 EDT I'd like to see flags changed.
In the current incarnation, they are just a source of drama. You should only be able to flag if you are in LAST place, and then you immediately go neutral and stand up. Otherwise you shouldn't be able to flag. |
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Wicked! wrote
at 3:44 PM, Friday August 1, 2008 EDT This idea has been said before but I like it:
Lessen the amount of points second gets. Make it equal to third, or just drop all the other places' points (2nd through 5th or something) and add them to the amount of points that first gets. Only by a little bit though. This will add incentive to reach for first even if second place is secured. |
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MadHat_Sam wrote
at 3:55 PM, Friday August 1, 2008 EDT Make dom matter more, make 2nd and 3rd very close to equal maybe only 10% percent difference. Also reduce the ability for first to farm dom. I know that making the dom calc that complicated might be hard but I think you should have reason to fight for 1st with out risking the dom, only risking the place points.
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